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The autumn years of the ICE should be the golden years for the ICE.


Average car price is 47k??!??!!! That’s absolutely insane! I really splurged on my wife’s Mazda at 33k. People must love 7+ year loans.

My thought is that it doesn’t matter what all the “promises” of “all electric by 20xx.” The market and current tech will allow it or not. Promises and regulations for EVs will only make things painful WHEN it doesn’t happen. People will naturally gravitate toward them when they become reliable... Just like when hybrids came out. I think, at best, EVs will take the place of hybrids in my lifetime (in terms of how many there are/ percentage of ownership).

Shutting down power plants and more EVs are counterintuitive and WILL NOT work. Just more pain from politicians with big words and no idea how inventing works.

Solar will get there one day and is probably the future, but definitely isn’t the present. Nuclear is the present but good ole Uncle Sam is in the way.

As far as ICE being in its prime of sorts, that’s not untrue. Hyundai of all makers has a 300 hp option for some of theirs cars. Too bad they mated it to a dual clutch.

In the 80s "diesel is the future!"
In the 00s "Hybrids are the future"
Now "EV's are the future"

What are most of us still driving?

GM "aspires" (key word) to have all electric PASSENGER VEHICLES by 2035. So there will still be ICE silverados even IF they electrify everything else. Probably burbs' to.

Ford says "europe offerings" will be all electric by 2040.

Chrysler to my knowledge hasnt said anything.

They left these "promises" full of loopholes and outs. Why? Because its the "cool" thing right now and they wanted to bolster stock prices. They know ICE will remain dominant in 2035 and far, far, beyond.
 
Ed
In the 80s "diesel is the future!"
In the 00s "Hybrids are the future"
Now "EV's are the future"

What are most of us still driving?

GM "aspires" (key word) to have all electric PASSENGER VEHICLES by 2035. So there will still be ICE silverados even IF they electrify everything else. Probably burbs' to.

Ford says "europe offerings" will be all electric by 2040.

Chrysler to my knowledge hasnt said anything.

They left these "promises" full of loopholes and outs. Why? Because its the "cool" thing right now and they wanted to bolster stock prices. They know ICE will remain dominant in 2035 and far, far, beyond.



Define dominant.
 
In the 80s "diesel is the future!"
In the 00s "Hybrids are the future"
Now "EV's are the future"

What are most of us still driving?

GM "aspires" (key word) to have all electric PASSENGER VEHICLES by 2035. So there will still be ICE silverados even IF they electrify everything else. Probably burbs' to.

Ford says "europe offerings" will be all electric by 2040.

Chrysler to my knowledge hasnt said anything.

They left these "promises" full of loopholes and outs. Why? Because its the "cool" thing right now and they wanted to bolster stock prices. They know ICE will remain dominant in 2035 and far, far, beyond.

Diesel didn’t really pan out… except in Europe as far as I can tell. There’s a bunch of diesel offerings over there for passenger cars that aren’t here. Hybrids did tho. It seems that half of every model available has a hybrid option. Heck I’m expecting my next car to be a hybrid. To my recollection (30 years old), hybrids were ridiculed just the same as EVs, if not more so… but they seem to be perfectly reliable now.
 
Ed



Define dominant.
50%+ of new vehicle sales
Diesel didn’t really pan out… except in Europe as far as I can tell. There’s a bunch of diesel offerings over there for passenger cars that aren’t here. Hybrids did tho. It seems that half of every model available has a hybrid option. Heck I’m expecting my next car to be a hybrid. To my recollection (30 years old), hybrids were ridiculed just the same as EVs, if not more so… but they seem to be perfectly reliable now.
They may offer hybrids....but how many actually sell? They havent anywhere near "killed" straight IC powertrains
 
Recycling...

I am 100 percent for recycling. with that being said, we also need to do a few things as producers and consumers to make this work. The biggest part of it is on the producers end. the biggest impact we can have on garbage/ landfill/ big plastic pile in the middle of the pacific Ocean is to drastically cut down on packaging. Why does everything have to be in a freaking 3 layers of packaging and plastic? just about everything we buy (non food or drug related, we'll get to that in a bit) can be put on a shelf or display either without any packaging or seriously reduced packaging. what you buy for general merchandise does not need to be in a blister pack. Retail big box stores and even the smaller stores can get together with manufactures and producers to standardize the racks/ shelves to hold products. this racking would not need to be changed for several years or even decades to hold products that are in either no packaging or minimal packaging. if some kind of plastic packaging is needed to hang or display something, make it durable and the cashier would then remove it from the item being bought to reuse at the store (think the plastic hanging hook that is on individual sockets when you go replace that lost 10mm). Bags. why are we using plastic bags? Costco and Aldi's have it right. let the customers pick boxes from stocking the store to take their merchandise home. bring back paper bags. we do not have to remove old growth forest for groceries or shopping either. bring your own cloth bag in for groceries, pay a quarter for a new paper bag, make the paper bags out of pulp/ fiber from easily renewable plants such as hemp(oh noes, that is marijuana! no it isnt...)

Food and drug packaging... this would be the one area that would need some extra packaging for consumer safety, but not as much as it is now. toothpaste does not need a box around the tube. at most it needs a hanging hook built into the cap and a foil anti tamper covering. or the cap can be made bigger so that it can be stored standing up. drugs and vitamins do not need any boxes at all. pack it on the shelf as is. beauty supplies such as lipstick and nail polish. no boxes, put it on the shelf or a special designed display as is. soda/ beer/ milk etc... reusable bottles. glass. when I was a kid you got your coke or pepsi in 16 ounce tall glass bottles that you took back to the store and even got a refund back for bringing them in, and they would refund you some of the money for bringing them back. hell me and my friends would go out looking for these types of bottles to turn them in for a few bucks of change. change all forms of plastic bottling to glass. point is, plastic uses a crapload of our oil to produce, it is toxic to wildlife and most types of plastic are near impossible to recycle.

What packaging we have left over should be fiber or paper based that can easily be recycled which means no glossy ink or printing. there should be options in your area to either take the recycleables to or an extra trash bin for just recycleable items for pickup by your garbage men. a thought for you... for a month, put all the recycleable and plastics in their own container and trash that cannot be reused or recycled such as the styrofoam meat trays an used napkins and other stuff in its own container. iff you can eliminate half of that or more, how much less bags of trash would be put on the curb for trash pickup day?

As Bobby Walter mentioned, one of the ultimate forms of recycling is fixing and keeping your car instead of trading every 3 to 5 years. get used parts from a pull a part or auto recycler. that is less production of new parts (and the associated pollution and packaging in manufacturing them. As a country, we need to pass some solid "right to repair" laws that force manufactures of just about every electronic and machinery to create items that are easy to repair and provide consumers with replacement parts at reasonable price to do so. Apple is a horrible company in this regard, and John Deere is another example of a horrible company on fixing your own stuff. I will not go deeper into this as I could rant all day about this and "planned obsolescence

Just my thoughts.

AJ


Glass will never be better for the environment or more recyclable then plastic.

How YOU.....HANDLE YOUR WASTE STREAM..... is all that matters.

The time and energy one is willing to expend on aspects of the things that make life easy...or some say progress....is and should remain individual in decision in the united states.


There are already too many laws.

Shitty people have shitty environments.


No law will change that. Only forced labor.
 
50%+ of new vehicle sales

They may offer hybrids....but how many actually sell? They havent anywhere near "killed" straight IC powertrains
Quite a few hybrids are sold. More every year. And 50% of new (passenger) vehicle sales? Think 5 years. Not 15.
 
Diesel didn’t really pan out… except in Europe as far as I can tell. There’s a bunch of diesel offerings over there for passenger cars that aren’t here. Hybrids did tho. It seems that half of every model available has a hybrid option. Heck I’m expecting my next car to be a hybrid. To my recollection (30 years old), hybrids were ridiculed just the same as EVs, if not more so… but they seem to be perfectly reliable now.
Did... did we really forget about the Prius already? 😐
 
Greed always wins out, if it saves you money, or time, you will do it

LEDs saved energy and lasted longer but incandescent bulbs were still the choice until price point for LEDs dropped enough for greed to kick in, money of course but also time, people saved time by not having to replace the older incandescent bulbs every year or so
"How many Ranger owners does it take to change a light bulb?"
"I forget since its been so long since I changed one"

EVs also have that going for them, oil changes and general servicing is much less, and most people pay to have that done, not DIYers, it's also a time inconvenience to take vehicle in to have the servicing done

And "filling up", unless you live at a gas station its a separate trip and you have to spend that time waiting for tank to fill up
EV fills up at home, no waiting just plug in and go inside, unplug when you need to leave again

Long trips...............I am sorry did you miss the part where ICE took min. 10 minutes each time you have to fill up just to drive around town, between long trips, say 6 times, so you are an hour ahead time wise minus the 30 or 40min fast recharge for EV
If you take less long trips then you will have DAYS banked in time savings
 
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Quite a few hybrids are sold. More every year. And 50% of new (passenger) vehicle sales? Think 5 years. Not 15.
Thats still a very small number when you consider most new vehicles sold are pickups.

I doubt itll be even in 15 years. All we can do is wait and see.
 
We've discussed pickups quite a bit in the past. The ones used for local work could switch any time. Long haul use, particularly with towing, will take longer because battery and charging technology isn't there yet.

Just because you don't want it yourself doesn't mean a lot of others aren't ready for it.
 
Greed always wins out, if it saves you money, or time, you will do it

LEDs saved energy and lasted longer but incandescent bulbs were still the choice until price point for LEDs dropped enough for greed to kick in, money of course but also time, people saved time by not having to replace the older incandescent bulbs every year or so
"How many Ranger owners does it take to change a light bulb?"
"I forget since its been so long since I changed one"

EVs also have that going for them, oil changes and general servicing is much less, and most people pay to have that done, not DIYers, it's also a time inconvenience to take vehicle in to have the servicing done
But people also like convenince. EV's are not convienent. Most people would rather sit 15 min for an oil change and spend 40 bucks then have to sit and wait hours to charge, drive out of their way to a charger, or pay an electrcian to install a charger. They also dont like having to plan their life around a vehicle, as in, "oh i just got home from my 50 mi commute, now i need to drive 30 mi to see my sister, will i have enough charge by morning to get to work?"

That sorta thing.
 
Just because you don't want it yourself doesn't mean a lot of others aren't ready for it.

I know and talk to alot of people, and spend alot of time reading various comments, etc in different places online. People "open" to Ev's are few and far between.

There was a study done recently that said something like 23% (IIRC) of people planning a vehicle purchase in the next 5 yrs would "for sure" consider EV. 20% or so said they "might", the rest said no.
 
Greed always wins out, if it saves you money, or time, you will do it

LEDs saved energy and lasted longer but incandescent bulbs were still the choice until price point for LEDs dropped enough for greed to kick in, money of course but also time, people saved time by not having to replace the older incandescent bulbs every year or so
"How many Ranger owners does it take to change a light bulb?"
"I forget since its been so long since I changed one"

EVs also have that going for them, oil changes and general servicing is much less, and most people pay to have that done, not DIYers, it's also a time inconvenience to take vehicle in to have the servicing done


Greed? Lazy....yeah.


Application.

Led is garbage for certain conditions.

And are dangerous for some people.





And those greedy ev owners are going to put oil changers out of business ...


Oh noes ..

:dntknw:
 
But people also like convenince. EV's are not convienent. Most people would rather sit 15 min for an oil change and spend 40 bucks then have to sit and wait hours to charge, drive out of their way to a charger, or pay an electrcian to install a charger. They also dont like having to plan their life around a vehicle, as in, "oh i just got home from my 50 mi commute, now i need to drive 30 mi to see my sister, will i have enough charge by morning to get to work?"

That sorta thing.
Um...

If you think EV's are inconvenient, then you've entirely missed the point.


If you're trying to make them function as a road warrior machine, then maybe. But we've already discussed that.

Their forte is shorter distance use. People that drive 200 miles per day or less. For that use, there's no need to -ever- 'sit and wait hours to charge' or 'drive out of their way to a charger'. Those concepts don't even exist for the typical EV audience (which is most, but certainly not all, car owners). A one time fee to have an an electrician wire a fast home charger is pretty inconsequential in the long run. In exchange, you never go to a gas station. Ever. Never schedule an oil change. The car just becomes a background appliance that you plug in when you get home.
 
In the 80s "diesel is the future!"
In the 00s "Hybrids are the future"
Now "EV's are the future"

What are most of us still driving?

GM "aspires" (key word) to have all electric PASSENGER VEHICLES by 2035. So there will still be ICE silverados even IF they electrify everything else. Probably burbs' to.

Ford says "europe offerings" will be all electric by 2040.

Chrysler to my knowledge hasnt said anything.

They left these "promises" full of loopholes and outs. Why? Because its the "cool" thing right now and they wanted to bolster stock prices. They know ICE will remain dominant in 2035 and far, far, beyond.

Hellcat is getting replaced by an electric muscle car... whatever that is.

An electric Ram is in the works.

Plug in hybrid Pacificas, Wranglers, Jeep Grand Cherokees already exist, Ram has a soft hybrid option.
 

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