New starter grinding and "engaging" Engine is be turned somehow. 2.8L V6

[MadMax_636]

So, Ive been having issues with my 2.8L V6 for months. First starter replacement worked perfectly and lasted around 1 1/2 months and then just started freewheeling.
Then I got a replacement from oreillys. When I installed that starter it just grinding. Not freewheeling but engaging but unable to turn of there engine. It was a loud grinding and I could hear the motor (Starter motor) spinning but the engine was not cranking/turning over.

I then changed my solenoid and starter using parts I got off rock auto and that starter With this starter and my engine cranked over without an issue. No horrible grinding nothing. Just my engine cranking and running.

Then I came out the next day and the starter would just freewheel and then the solenoid (Fender relay) got stuck and just spun inside itself until I gave it a nice smack (The relay). I then gave up for the day because it was raining.

I then went and got a remanned starter from advanced auto and I went through 2 of them (Both duds and freewheeled) and the third worked. Instead of turning my engine over, It grinding like the crappy oreillys starter.


Ive done A LOT of research but Im sure there's a lot more I haven't read. Ive read changing to a 10 tooth drive gear and putting a 86 - 1990 starter since it fits and has the 10 tooth drive gear already. Will fix my issue. Im just wondering if anyone else has had the issues with the starter grinding and not fully turning over the engine. Just making a ear piercingly horrible sound.
and what fixed it. Im still new to this truck and Ive been pulling my hair out over this since I've been out of a truck since the tail end of September.

 

[RobbieD]

Not sure what you've got going on, but I feel your pain. Couple of thoughts on things that you may have checked already.

Does your truck have the separator plate, in good condition, between the engine and trans? It correctly locates the starter.

All of the flywheel teeth are good? No chipped or boogered sections?

Check the cable between the solenoid and starter. If it's original, or has bad insulation or visible corrosion, consider replacing it.

Make sure that all of your trans to engine (bellhousing) bolts are tight.

Good luck!

 

[MadMax_636]

Not sure what you've got going on, but I feel your pain. Couple of thoughts on things that you may have checked already.

Does your truck have the separator plate, in good condition, between the engine and trans? It correctly locates the starter.

All of the flywheel teeth are good? No chipped or boogered sections?

Check the cable between the solenoid and starter. If it's original, or has bad insulation or visible corrosion, consider replacing it.

Make sure that all of your trans to engine (bellhousing) bolts are tight.

Good luck!

The separator plate it good. Not destroyed. Good shape for its age (other than some tiny dings and scratches. Nothing major. ) I can post a photo of it.

All of the teeth are great surprisingly. None boogered, chipped, or missing. Maybe some small metal shavings from the starter doing its thing....wrongly.

Ive replaced the solenoid twice. Both stick like a Peanut butter until you beat them.
I did replace all of the cables. Since they are 84 original and needed replacing.

How do I check the bell housing bolts? Like where are they located?

 

[MadMax_636]

This is from a post by 1984ranger28.

Starter noise after starting.

This is what mine sounds like minus the starting or attempting to turn the engine over.

 

[Josh B]

The bell housing bolts are what holds the transmission and engine together. go in behind the front wheel with a flashlight and look up around the transmission, towards the engine. You should see them then

 

[MadMax_636]

The bell housing bolts are what holds the transmission and engine together. go in behind the front wheel with a flashlight and look up around the transmission, towards the engine. You should see them then

Not to be rude in anyway. I know what the bell housing is but what I don't know where they are all located. Since Im still new to my truck and getting this deep into working on it.
I even looked up the bolt pattern with zero luck.

 

[RobbieD]

Well, you've already covered most everything that's "off-the-wall" that I could think of.

Bellhousing bolts. From below, there are two on each side, from rear-to-front, where the tranny meets the engine. Remaining upper two bolts, reach wayyy up on top of the bellhousing, or from the top rear of the engine. 13mm bolt heads, I think. I doubt that it's this, but it's worth ruling out.

"Replaced all of the cables". Was this all three: POS battery to solenoid; POS solenoid to starter; NEG battery to frame AND engine? The reason I ask, is that welding solenoid contacts ("stuck") can indicate excessive current draw, and can't rule out that the starter weirdness could be not enough current. When it's acting up, take a single jumper cable, connect one end to the battery NEG post and the other to the engine, and see if anything changes.

 

[MadMax_636]

Well, you've already covered most everything that's "off-the-wall" that I could think of.

Bellhousing bolts. From below, there are two on each side, from rear-to-front, where the tranny meets the engine. Remaining upper two bolts, reach wayyy up on top of the bellhousing, or from the top rear of the engine. 13mm bolt heads, I think. I doubt that it's this, but it's worth ruling out.

"Replaced all of the cables". Was this all three: POS battery to solenoid; POS solenoid to starter; NEG battery to frame AND engine? The reason I ask, is that welding solenoid contacts ("stuck") can indicate excessive current draw, and can't rule out that the starter weirdness could be not enough current. When it's acting up, take a single jumper cable, connect one end to the battery NEG post and the other to the engine, and see if anything changes.

Ill try that tomorrow.

What are your thoughts on using a 10 tooth starter? I dont know much about it but from multiple other threads I've asked for help regarding this issue have mentioned I try that.

I also read a thread about using a 4.0L starter from a automatic or swapping the drive gear.

I do have 2 ground cables. One running to the solenoid to the negative battery post and one to the engine.

 

[RobbieD]

To be honest, I've never had any unusual starter problems, beyond the normal and expected wearing-out of parts to the point of needing replacement. And I have both a 2.8 and a 2.9 truck, and have swapped starters and other parts between them, with no issues. I have chased down and corrected wiring issues, at times, but again, that's to be expected on trucks this old.

The failures that you have had, as described, are unusual. A lot of new or reman replacement parts are garbage these days (and I do go cheap wherever I can!), but for the troubles (i.e. repeated failures) that you've had, it sounds like the truck has an underlying root cause. If it were me, at this point I'd be really checking that the engine, frame, and body all have absolutely good ground connections back to the battery's NEG post. Recheck all four POS connections from battery through solenoid to starter. And it won't hurt to check the bellhousing bolts, too.

Hang in there; I've had my share of stuff that kicked my ass until I finally figured it out. Good luck!

 

[bobbywalter]

What starter are you currently using?

 

[MadMax_636]

What starter are you currently using?

The car quest remanned from advanced auto.

 

[.38spl]

I’ve swapped the starter drive gear on three different trucks now, with great luck. At NAPA , it’s a BWD part number SD353.

As for your solenoid, does it stop trying to engage if you pull the small (coil) wire off?

 

[.38spl]

I do have 2 ground cables. One running to the solenoid to the negative battery post and one to the engine.

Doesn’t sound right.
Should have a positive that runs from the battery to the solenoid, where it distributes to the rest of the vehicle. The other side of the solenoid feeds the starter. The negative side of the battery will have a large cable running to the engine somewhere, then other grounds jumping to the body and chassis.

 

[Josh B]

As often as you're getting the "ground" remarks, I'd suggest pulling the ground from the starter, then pulling the starter>bellhousing bolt it's anchored to, and checking under it for corrosion also

 

[MadMax_636]

Doesn’t sound right.
Should have a positive that runs from the battery to the solenoid, where it distributes to the rest of the vehicle. The other side of the solenoid feeds the starter. The negative side of the battery will have a large cable running to the engine somewhere, then other grounds jumping to the body and chassis.

No I have a positive to the solenoid but I was told to try adding a extra ground cable to the solenoid from the negative battery post.

My truck also had it like that when I go it.