Truck died on me :(

[AllBlackBimmer]

Truck died on me - UPDATED

2004 xlt 4.0 69k auto

Today all is well... Then I go to leave the gym, normal drive, and as I'm slowing down for a redlight... My truck dies on me! No dash lights.

I tried to restart it... Cranks, starts, sputters, and dies again within 10 secs of really rough idle. Giving it more gas during this didn't help.

So got it towed to my house and is currently sitting in my driveway

A little backstory... Over the last week or two, I've heard a faint rattling.. Almost like a knocking sound, but didn't seem to be coming from the engine... More underneath the truck. Drove fine. Could be completely unrelated, or the cause of my issue.

I know it can be a few things...

Fuel pump? Giving it gas during the rough idling had zero impact on the idle or keeping the truck running.
Vacuum leak? I did visually look at the hoses once I got home... No obvious cracks or broken hoses that would cause it to shut off while driving.
Erg valve?
Maf sensor?

When I got it home after getting towed...I got it to start up... And it was idling very rough around 600-800 rpm... It ran for 30 seconds like this nd I turned it off to look around.
Started it back up, idled roughly again for about 10 seconds and shutoff on its own.

Truck has been running fine the last month+ and this today came out of nowhere, so I highly doubt it's something like spark plugs or something. Other than that knocking sound, which can be completely unrelated, there was zero signs of this happening. Drove to work it was fine. Drove to the gym was fine. Leave the gym, drive about a mile and it dies on me!

I guess my question is... What Can I do to test some of the possible issues out listed above before I just start randomly buying and replacing things?

Any other things I should be looking for?
An exhaust leak wouldn't have anything to do with this would it?

I've owned this truck 4 months and to be honest, it has been nothing but problems. Replaced alternator a month or so ago (not a big deal) but also had to get my transmission rebuilt too!

Hate to say it, but depending what this problem is and how much it cost me, I am getting rid of this truck. Sigh. So very disappointed.

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UPDATE

OK, so garage finally got a chance to look at my truck...

any they cant replicate the problem?!?!?

They are telling me, the truck drives fine, starts and runs good.

WTF?

What would possibly caused this issue? I am completely confused by this.
My truck 100% shut off on me while driving. And upon trying to start it back up 4 or 5 times after, it ran VERY rough for 10-20 seconds and died on me again.

And now, "all of a sudden" ... its not doing it?

Shop said there are no stored codes, no rough idle, and truck has been running great the last 3 days of having it.


HELP?

 

[RonD]

Check tail pipe.................someone may have "potato'ed" you, lol

Doesn't read like you have had much "good luck" with this one, maybe it was built on a Thursday before a long weekend

Giving it more gas isn't possible from in the cab, when you push the gas pedal down on a fuel injected engine you give it more air.
Throttle position sensor(TPS) will let the computer know about throttle being opened but..........

Outside of checking for potatoes, I would check fuel pressure, sure reads like it's very low, '04 should be 65-70psi at the rail, then hold above 55psi with key off.

Can't see MAF sensor causing this issue at least not without code and CEL(check engine light).
Or O2s
TPS issue would cause a code and CEL(check engine light)
If it was CKP(crank position) sensor issue, engine wouldn't start at all
CPS(cam position sensor) isn't used at idle and computer would switch to batch fire in any case.

It reads more like a physical issue than sensor or control issue

 

[The_Epsicle]

Can you start it with the throttle open slightly? If so I'd suspect the IAC needs to be cleaned. I'm not well versed on the subject matter but I've had that happen to my 94 and cleaning the IAC cured it. It could also be as simple as a dirty air filter though it would have to be a really dirty air filter. If there are cracks in the tube between the filter and the throttle that could cause problems since the air wouldn't be going through the MAF. I'll be honest with you though, I'm just throwing ideas up against the wall here.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

Can you start it with the throttle open slightly? If so I'd suspect the IAC needs to be cleaned. I'm not well versed on the subject matter but I've had that happen to my 94 and cleaning the IAC cured it. It could also be as simple as a dirty air filter though it would have to be a really dirty air filter. If there are cracks in the tube between the filter and the throttle that could cause problems since the air wouldn't be going through the MAF. I'll be honest with you though, I'm just throwing ideas up against the wall here.

when you say start it with the throttle open... do you mean stepping on the gas pedal and starting or?

I can start the truck normally... but its has a very rough idle, jumps all over the place and sputters... then usually kills itself within 10-20 seconds.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

Check tail pipe.................someone may have "potato'ed" you, lol

Doesn't read like you have had much "good luck" with this one, maybe it was built on a Thursday before a long weekend

Giving it more gas isn't possible from in the cab, when you push the gas pedal down on a fuel injected engine you give it more air.
Throttle position sensor(TPS) will let the computer know about throttle being opened but..........

Outside of checking for potatoes, I would check fuel pressure, sure reads like it's very low, '04 should be 65-70psi at the rail, then hold above 55psi with key off.

Can't see MAF sensor causing this issue at least not without code and CEL(check engine light).
Or O2s
TPS issue would cause a code and CEL(check engine light)
If it was CKP(crank position) sensor issue, engine wouldn't start at all
CPS(cam position sensor) isn't used at idle and computer would switch to batch fire in any case.

It reads more like a physical issue than sensor or control issue

good info.

When you say about the tailpipe...

I have an aftermarket exhaust system.... and where the new matches up to the existing... they clamped it... not welded... so of course, there is an exhaust leak there, something I was going to take care of this month by getting a new exhaust welded in to pass inspection next month.

Would you think that has anything to do with anything?

Would a bad TPS cause my issues do you think?

And this may be a dumb question, but "where" or how can I check fuel pressure?

What about the pcv valve? related to any of my issues?


And yes, I've had ZERO luck with this truck. I am so disappointed in it. This is the 2nd Ranger I've owned, and sadly, this will be my last. I always liked these trucks, but I'm not sure if it's a "Ford thing" or a "Ranger thing" or what... but I'm kind of over it. I know so many people that have had long lasting fords and rangers... and then almost know just as many that have had nothing but issues.
I am not an American car fan, but have always like American made trucks... but now, I think I hear Toyota calling my name (yes, I know they have their issues as well, like all cars/brands do)

 

[RonD]

You can, and will, get a Lemon if you buy enough vehicles over the years, some models are Lemon rich, lol, but Ranger isn't one of them.
Toyota has some good models but there will be Lemons in there as well.
Ford trucks IMO, arguably, have the fewest Lemons but................it ain't 0

No, an exhaust leak after the front O2 sensors wouldn't effect engine operation.
Exhaust manifold leak will cause engine to run slightly rich, not enough to effect operation but MPG would drop a bit.
Front O2 sees extra oxygen in the exhaust from the leak, this means Lean to computer so it adds more fuel than needed.

On the fuel rail(feeds gas to fuel injectors), you will find/see a schrader valve, this is the same type of valve used on bike and car/truck tires for air, it is a round threaded tube with a pin in the center, should have a cap screwed on it just like a tire's air valve.
That is where you attach a fuel pressure gauge.
Auto parts stores often "loan" these and you can rent them from tool rental places.

Your '04 fuel system is pretty simple, it has a fuel pump with a check valve in the fuel tank, and then a fuel line that runs to a fuel filter(in frame rail under drivers seat area), then to the fuel rail on the engine.
Ford Computer(PCM) will Prime the fuel system for 2 seconds when key is turned on.
You should hear the fuel pump come on and run for 2 seconds each time key is turned on, you can turn key on and off several times to build up pressure in the system, to see if that may be the problem.
Fuel pump power is controlled by the PCM using the Fuel Pump Relay, it is in the engine fuse box, fuel pump relay is the same relay as the WOT(wide open throttle) relay, you can swap these two relays to see if the FP relay is the problem, unlikely but not 0.

The check valve on the fuel pump is not a separate part, it is part of the pump, but they can fail and system then can not hold pressure, check valve prevents pressure loss when engine is off and also prevents pressure over 75psi.
PCM can't monitor fuel pressure, it does monitor if fuel pump is getting 12volts, but doesn't know if pump is actually running or what fuel pressure is at the rail.

There was a post recently that had a bad TPS, it was sending PCM 4.8v all the time, that is WOT voltage, and this voltage before startup tells the PCM to turn off fuel injectors, that is called Clear Flooded Engine mode, this was a No Start, not a rough idle.
PCM sends TPS 5 volts on 1 wire, TPS sends back under 1volt if throttle is closed, and above 4.6volts if throttle is wide open on another wire, 3rd wire is a ground.
So TPS is similar to light dimmer or volume control, a variable resistor, as throttle is opened voltage going to PCM increases.
Above 4.6volts(WOT) before you start the engine causes Clear Flooded Engine routine to start, computer shuts off fuel injectors, this is true for ALL fuel injected engine computers, not just Ford, try it some time, key on, hold gas pedal to the floor, crank engine, it won't start or even fire, release gas pedal(even while still cranking) and computer will start fuel injectors.

IAC(idle air control) Valve could be the issue but I would think you would have had issues leading up to the stall, i.e. idle would not be stable, up one day down the next, and opening the throttle should cure the symptom, because IAC Valve is now not the only air control
Because this was a sudden, out of the blue issue, I would expect the problem to be a device failure, fuel pump fits that.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

Because this was a sudden, out of the blue issue, I would expect the problem to be a device failure, fuel pump fits that.

Great post, thanks for the info.

I guess my question regarding the fuel pump is this...

I can still start my truck, it will run - Very roughly - for a 10-20 seconds and then shutoff... if the fuel pump was bad, shouldn't the truck not start at all since it's not getting any fuel?

Or does the pump function differently and might allow a little fuel to pass through? perhaps at a very low pressure?

is the fuel filter part of the fuel pump? Perhaps it is clogged with some crap in it?

 

[RonD]

Fuel pump can fail to run at all, and yes engine wouldn't start at all, but it is a pump with an impeller and check valve.
If impeller is not spinning at full speed then limited pressure, if check valve is open or fuel line has cracked in the tank, then limited pressure.
Limited pressure gets used up when engine is started, struggles to run and then stalls.

If you check the pressure your can either see this or take it off the table as the problem.

In the fuel tank there is a "sock" on the fuel pump, this is a pre-filter, and they can get clogged, there is also the inline fuel filter.
Thing about filters is that they give you a "heads up" as they start to get clogged up.
You would first notice filter issues, fuel or air, at higher speeds, you would notice less power at highway speeds or under load, power would be limited as fuel couldn't meet demand, or air.
So unless you filled the tank with some mud, lol, sudden filter clog issue wouldn't happen.

It is possible to get some bad gas, with dirt or water in it, and it could fit the symptoms, but a long shot IMO.
Water is heavier than gas, so if water does get into tank it will settle to the bottom if vehicle sits long enough, then when vehicle is started fuel pump, which pulls from the bottom of the tank, will pump in the water and engine would stall out because of high water content, so it fits your symptom.
If you just got gas before this happened you may want to siphon some out of the tank, put it in a glass jar and see if there is water in it, it will settle out, not hard to see.
There are also additives like HEET, these absorb water into a burnable chemical molecule so engine can run until all the water is gone.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

Fuel pump can fail to run at all, and yes engine wouldn't start at all, but it is a pump with an impeller and check valve.
If impeller is not spinning at full speed then limited pressure, if check valve is open or fuel line has cracked in the tank, then limited pressure.
Limited pressure gets used up when engine is started, struggles to run and then stalls.

If you check the pressure your can either see this or take it off the table as the problem.

In the fuel tank there is a "sock" on the fuel pump, this is a pre-filter, and they can get clogged, there is also the inline fuel filter.
Thing about filters is that they give you a "heads up" as they start to get clogged up.
You would first notice filter issues, fuel or air, at higher speeds, you would notice less power at highway speeds or under load, power would be limited as fuel couldn't meet demand, or air.
So unless you filled the tank with some mud, lol, sudden filter clog issue wouldn't happen.

It is possible to get some bad gas, with dirt or water in it, and it could fit the symptoms, but a long shot IMO.
Water is heavier than gas, so if water does get into tank it will settle to the bottom if vehicle sits long enough, then when vehicle is started fuel pump, which pulls from the bottom of the tank, will pump in the water and engine would stall out because of high water content, so it fits your symptom.
If you just got gas before this happened you may want to siphon some out of the tank, put it in a glass jar and see if there is water in it, it will settle out, not hard to see.
There are also additives like HEET, these absorb water into a burnable chemical molecule so engine can run until all the water is gone.

hmm, yea, perhaps it is a fuel pressure issue... that seems to be the only logical reason it died on me like that.

No warning signs leading up to the stalling out yesterday - other than the faint rattling/knocking sound... could be completely unrelated tho... no rough idle or hesitation etc.

I did get gas a day or two before all of this, but I also agree it is highly unlikely that it was bad gas with dirt or water in it.
I also daily drive my truck, and it was running fine earlier in the day and prior to it crapping out on me.

Fingers crossed it is a "simple" fuel pump issue.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

See update in original post.

The only thing I can think of is that some dirt or something got sucked through the fuel lines?

No vacuum leaks.
Good fuel pressure at the rail.
Spark plugs/wires are good.
Battery good.

Run and drives just fine no.

Would it sitting for a few days have anything to do with it?

 

[RonD]

Maybe you got some water in the fuel tank, bad gas.

After filling up the water stays in solution with the gas, as you drive the gas in the tank is sloshed around.
If it sits over nite the water will settle to the bottom of the tank, so when you start it the fuel pump sucks in the high water/gas first, engine runs fine until the water makes its way thru the filter and up to the fuel rail, then engine can die and restarting is also an issue until there is enough gas in the water to ignite, then its rough running until all the water is gone.

 

[enjr44]

Put a can of Heet or the like in it and keep your finger crossed. IF it was water in the tank that will allow it to run through the engine and get rid of it.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

Put a can of Heet or the like in it and keep your finger crossed. IF it was water in the tank that will allow it to run through the engine and get rid of it.

I hear you and the above posted about water in the gas tank...

I just for some reason, find it hard to believe I have water in my tank.

I know some gas stations have their issues, but I always go to a local Sunoco and/or Shell that are both pretty well maintained and popular gas stations that get heavy use.

I may try some HEET...
but unfortunately, I think it may be electrical.

My truck has 3 previous owners, and the last 2 owners owned for a combined 2 years... so makes me think they had issues to and dumped the truck.

I also used some techron fuel injector cleaner about 2-3 months ago, and have not used it since. didn't notice any different after using it.

 

[The_Epsicle]

Still sounds like an IAC issue to me. on 4.0 2004's it's just right on top of the throttle body beneath the shield. It's a piece of cake to clean, just buy some throttle body cleaner and spray the inside using a q-tip to clean the tight areas.

 

[AllBlackBimmer]

Still sounds like an IAC issue to me. on 4.0 2004's it's just right on top of the throttle body beneath the shield. It's a piece of cake to clean, just buy some throttle body cleaner and spray the inside using a q-tip to clean the tight areas.

I will clean it out one of these weekends since it looks to be pretty simple.

However, I don't think this is my issue since I've never had idle issues driving or at startup.

And I don't know that the IAC would've caused my truck to stall out as I was driving it? But im not sure.

Truck also has only 70,000 miles.. so I would think it cant be THAT clogged up with carbon buildup...