Yellow Freight Bankruptcy

[rusty ol ranger]

For many many years Fuji Heavy Industries (parent company of Subaru) made Polaris’ engines. For sure in the snowmobiles, and I believe ATVs too. They started phasing them out in the mid 90s I believe.

Actually yes my 500 is a fuji lol. They made the 500 fuji till 2013

 

[Bill]

Difference is that table top tube radio built in 1961 will still be functioning 50 years later.

Allowing massive floods of asian imports have done nothing but flood the market with cheap consumer goods...american companies could either cut quality, cut wages, or fold...and thats what many of them did.

So now instead of going to the store, buying something, and expecting more then 2 or 3 years from it is absurd...regardless of cost.

Panasonic/Technics, Sony, Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer, Nakamichi, Yaesu, JVC, Clarion, and many other companies produced electronics that are still working today. However, capacitors an resistors naturally change value over time and that will cause problems somewhere down the line regardless of manufacturing origin. But more to the point, the Japanese companies reinvested in themselves and filled in the gap where consumers desired solid-state electronics that didn't suffer from accelerated aging of components due to the heat from tubes, and more importantly, they didn't have to make a trip to Kmart or Radio Shack so they could test the tubes to determine if they had a bad tube that was causing a problem with their TV, or if the resistors changed value from the heat coming from a nearby tube. It also eliminated people getting up and banging their TVs due to poor quality soldering of components as well as the pins on the tubes moving around from repeated heating and cooling cycles which caused intermittent open circuits at the pin and tube socket interface.

Asian stuff is subpar quality...period. Look at the quality of all the shitty sweatshop autoparts thats flooded the market the past 5 or 6 years.

I'm talking about how it all started. The imports from Japan ran over American manufacturers because they refused to improve until the competition forced them to, and they only did it half-way by rebadging Japanese cars under domestic names.

Yes japanese cars back then could of been considered more reliable then their american counterparts...but that was due to unions and union workers not giving a shit. The cars themselves were fine had they been assembled by a caring workforce.

How do you know they didn't care, or are you just making stuff up because you don't think unions should exist? Everything I've seen indicates most of them liked their jobs and wanted the companies they worked for to be successful. These were jobs where multiple generations worked in the auto industry, they were paid well, had benefits, and overtime was always available if they wanted to earn more. These workers you have just insulted didn't make the final decision to use poor quality materials in valve stem seals that would become brittle at 50,000 miles and leak oil into the cylinders until the EPA forced them to use better materials to reduce emissions due to oil burning. They didn't make the decision to use many of the flaws that we have seen recalls for the years. Those decisions were approved by management.

Not to mention japanese vehicles lack robustness. Go compare an 85 nissan/datsun whatever they were then to an 85 ranger...or those dually "1ton" toyota chassis cabs that uhaul and motorhomes were built on, and compare that to an american truck of the time.

Japanese vehicles are plenty robust. The person who bought a 1972 Dodge Colt doesn't have the same need or desire as the person who bought a Dodge Challenger or a Dart. Likewise, the person who bought a 1979 Mazda B2000/Ford Courier had a specific thing in mind. Usually it was wanting the occasional utility of an open bed truck that could be used as a daily driver, and that is exactly why they bought them. They ran forever. My Dad had one. It lasted 17 years and 168,000 miles and the only thing that was wrong with it when he sold it was the paint faded and the seats were broken down from the heat an UV exposure over the years, which was to be expected from a late 70s vehicle.

Allowing basically un checked asian imports into this country has done nothing but kill jobs, fill everyones house with cheap plastic shit that needs replaced every 3 years, and allowed the uprise of china

Here's something we can agree on, mostly. The Japanese took pride in their products. They made every attempt they could to improve things that didn't have anything wrong with them and their business model was designed to make things last because they knew that even though their products lasted almost forever that people would look for their brand for the reliability. The American model was to get it past the warranty and count on blind brand loyalty when people decided they didn't want to go through the trouble of fixing things after the warranty, and that you need a 302 to get to the grocery store and back while the Japanese offered an abundance of options with smaller engines during a time when the cost of gas was high. In the end the Japanese won the market in consumer electronics. It threw in some healthy competition in the auto industry that forced them to take a look at what they could do to improve.

The issue we have now is the Chinese model is turnover. Since the whole world has moved manufacturing to China, they have decided to take advantage of it because, where else are you going to buy higher quality widget if they make all the widgets? It wasn't the unions that did it. It wasn't the EPA. The Japanese managed to make it work, and they have tougher environment laws in Japan. It was the companies that lobbied for giving China permanent most favored nation trading status in 2000. There was a lot about this on the internet back then that explained how why, up to including the fighting and threats made against anyone who didn't vote in favor for it. It was really a nasty deal.

 

[James Morse]

China cleaned our clocks in the manufacturing sector

Yes plus don't forget they had no or less strict environmental requirements.

I won't sit here and berate the American worker.

Nor me. You can always find bad examples of anything, I was just sharing some of my experiences as examples of a company paying people for not doing much work. It happens.

Sleeping on the job? Really?

Yes really but understand paper mills are huge and cover square miles of territory and immense buildings. It just depends what the job was. That day my job was to shove a steel rod down the barrel of a series of guns arranged in a circular fashion, that sprayed black liquor into a huge boiler. You need a lot of heat in a paper mill because you cook the wood plus you have to dry the paper as it's made and so on. The black liquor is basically water that has in it all the lignins cooked out of the wood, so that the fibers can separate to make pulp. But it burns because the boiler is so hot. Anyway it plugs up the barrels sometimes so you shove this rod in it but most didn't plug up and one or two that did plugged up right away regardless so really it was kind of a useless job with nothing to really do that's why I was (stupidly) asking what should I do. Yes people slept there, or if not asleep sometimes you need people there in case a machine goes down but if things are running nicely they are just there. If you asked somebody how was work and they said "fucked the dog" it meant it was easy. No idea where that phrase came from but everybody knew what it was. But - of course - people worked, we made paper, stump to rump operation. Eventually the environmental killed it, it's just too expensive to completely rebuild. Or maybe greed killed it, it got bought up, could have been a write-off or whatever.

An older generation would turn a product over and if it was stamped ‘Made in China’ it was quickly placed back on the shelf.

Well I must be that generation because a lot of stuff is crap. Example - wood screws. I've had them just break off with not much force on them. Pot metal. You can still get screws made in the US but you have to look for them. Local chains stopped carrying any decent stuff. If you look at a screw, 'real' screws have the body (where it's not threaded) the same diameter as the threads. A lot of screws, the body is smaller. It depends how they are made. Anyway, I use a fair amount of wood screws and I pay the premium to get something good. Same with nails, because I use them to make tuning pins so the consistency of diameter, and that they are straight, is important to me. ISO nails are what I get, I'm not saying they are perfect, but the amount of 'not good' is really small because at least in theory to get the ISO certification they have to meet the standards. Taiwan actually turns out some good stuff, completely different than China. Machinery is decent, in my experience (Grizzly). But to me the best stuff for a small shop is the old Craftsman branded machinery and that's pretty much all I run, but I do have a bandsaw made in Switzerland, but I doubt they're in business either.

Yep Japanese is completely different culture as well. Demming is a part of the picture by no means all of it.

You can have pride in any job whether it's raking leaves or working in a convenience store or assembling vehicles. That's a matter of having an attitude that says whatever the job is, I'll do the best I can on it.

There's no physical barrier to rebuilding the steel industry here and start turning out decent stuff. The problem is the economics aren't there. If you look at something like the Willow Run bomber plant, and try to fathom the rate they were turning out planes, this was like 80 years ago, a massive undertaking - and just one example - done in a short time frame and during a war. This is a different kind of war now but it's pretty late in the game. I'm just saying, if you go looking for investors ands say "I'm going to build a steel mill" I don't think you'll get many backers.

Want to get rid of the national debt? In theory, the treasury can legally mint trillion dollar coins. Someone buys them, debt is gone. Probably creates other issues. As I see it, the only time debt is a big issue is when the interest cost starts being a big part of your budget. If I put $100 into T-bills, I'm lending the government money at 5.5%. That's actually pretty good for me relative to it sitting in a zero interest checking account. So from a personal standpoint, the debt is a good thing. Actually I wonder, to whom is all this money owed? OK, some is owed to me, but that's an insignificant amount, and again from a personal standpoint I don't want them to pay off debt I want to keep lending to them. It's probably (the rate) a temporary fluke and only happened because treasury wants to drive up borrowing costs so high the stuff becomes unaffordable on a loan and in theory that brings down prices because people can't afford stuff any more on credit. Yet we have a trillion owed on credit cards and the default rate is rising. Inflation is in fact down though, a lot from last year. The thing that's a killer is, low inflation still doesn't reverse the last year or so and everything is so high already pricewise.

China may be starting a period of deflation. Their stuff will become yet cheaper. But it's not the things that seem to drive inflation - housing, food, fuel/utilities, vehicles - the must-have stuff - most of that doesn't come from China, at least I don't think so, open to correction.

 

[Roert42]

I’ve seen issues with the ownership/ management of domestic oil refineries and power plants. Instead of putting money aside for rebuild and refits, they know the life cycle of the equipment, maybe 10 years or 30 years or whatever, they run lean. Then when it’s time for a major retrofit they go bankrupt. Stupid, but I’m sure a few guys make an enough money where it didn’t matter to them if they screw the economy for half the country.

This is part of the reason gas prices are so high compared to 6 years ago. A lot refineries have shut down in the past few years.


Also, Fuji made some really garbage industrial motor controls. They like to catch on fire. My parent company had a major lawsuit with them because of it.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Panasonic/Technics, Sony, Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer, Nakamichi, Yaesu, JVC, Clarion, and many other companies produced electronics that are still working today. However, capacitors an resistors naturally change value over time and that will cause problems somewhere down the line regardless of manufacturing origin. But more to the point, the Japanese companies reinvested in themselves and filled in the gap where consumers desired solid-state electronics that didn't suffer from accelerated aging of components due to the heat from tubes, and more importantly, they didn't have to make a trip to Kmart or Radio Shack so they could test the tubes to determine if they had a bad tube that was causing a problem with their TV, or if the resistors changed value from the heat coming from a nearby tube. It also eliminated people getting up and banging their TVs due to poor quality soldering of components as well as the pins on the tubes moving around from repeated heating and cooling cycles which caused intermittent open circuits at the pin and tube socket interface.



I'm talking about how it all started. The imports from Japan ran over American manufacturers because they refused to improve until the competition forced them to, and they only did it half-way by rebadging Japanese cars under domestic names.



How do you know they didn't care, or are you just making stuff up because you don't think unions should exist? Everything I've seen indicates most of them liked their jobs and wanted the companies they worked for to be successful. These were jobs where multiple generations worked in the auto industry, they were paid well, had benefits, and overtime was always available if they wanted to earn more. These workers you have just insulted didn't make the final decision to use poor quality materials in valve stem seals that would become brittle at 50,000 miles and leak oil into the cylinders until the EPA forced them to use better materials to reduce emissions due to oil burning. They didn't make the decision to use many of the flaws that we have seen recalls for the years. Those decisions were approved by management.



Japanese vehicles are plenty robust. The person who bought a 1972 Dodge Colt doesn't have the same need or desire as the person who bought a Dodge Challenger or a Dart. Likewise, the person who bought a 1979 Mazda B2000/Ford Courier had a specific thing in mind. Usually it was wanting the occasional utility of an open bed truck that could be used as a daily driver, and that is exactly why they bought them. They ran forever. My Dad had one. It lasted 17 years and 168,000 miles and the only thing that was wrong with it when he sold it was the paint faded and the seats were broken down from the heat an UV exposure over the years, which was to be expected from a late 70s vehicle.



Here's something we can agree on, mostly. The Japanese took pride in their products. They made every attempt they could to improve things that didn't have anything wrong with them and their business model was designed to make things last because they knew that even though their products lasted almost forever that people would look for their brand for the reliability. The American model was to get it past the warranty and count on blind brand loyalty when people decided they didn't want to go through the trouble of fixing things after the warranty, and that you need a 302 to get to the grocery store and back while the Japanese offered an abundance of options with smaller engines during a time when the cost of gas was high. In the end the Japanese won the market in consumer electronics. It threw in some healthy competition in the auto industry that forced them to take a look at what they could do to improve.

The issue we have now is the Chinese model is turnover. Since the whole world has moved manufacturing to China, they have decided to take advantage of it because, where else are you going to buy higher quality widget if they make all the widgets? It wasn't the unions that did it. It wasn't the EPA. The Japanese managed to make it work, and they have tougher environment laws in Japan. It was the companies that lobbied for giving China permanent most favored nation trading status in 2000. There was a lot about this on the internet back then that explained how why, up to including the fighting and threats made against anyone who didn't vote in favor for it. It was really a nasty deal.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Bill]

I know of Demming, if it’s who I think you're referring to. While I won't let myself get into a protracted debate on economics and statistics, fast forward to the next century where China cleaned our clocks in the manufacturing sector, leaving us the rust belt and closed steel mills, while steadfastly gaining on the technology sector - poised, ready, willing and possibly able to clean or clocks there as well. The CHIPs act attempts to address the problem but I'm convinced that's driven more by a national intelligence finding and the threating invasion of Taiwan - a National Defense strategy rather than a concern for the American worker or bringing that technology home again to stay. We’re playing defense, not offense. Bad place to be.

Worth mention is that Chinese products were dumped on our markets at a cost that wasn't much more than the cost of raw materials to produce the same items here. The price of these products and the value of the Yuan were manipulated to give China an unfair advantage. Also, there's quite a bit of manufacturing in China that is government-owned, so they could afford to sell products below cost to manufacture. Then there's the cost of shipping products from China to overseas markets. How is it profitable to ship low-cost items around the world and sell them for 59¢? I know things like spatulas are imported in large volumes. But, think about the logistics involved in shipping them from manufacturer to a port in China, loading them on a ship, the cost of fuel, then reverse the process in the US, Canada, or Europe where taking them off a ship, loading them on trucks which take them to a distribution centers which then sell them to local distribution centers, then to a store? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Bill]

Well I must be that generation because a lot of stuff is crap. Example - wood screws. I've had them just break off with not much force on them. Pot metal. You can still get screws made in the US but you have to look for them. Local chains stopped carrying any decent stuff. If you look at a screw, 'real' screws have the body (where it's not threaded) the same diameter as the threads. A lot of screws, the body is smaller. It depends how they are made. Anyway, I use a fair amount of wood screws and I pay the premium to get something good. Same with nails, because I use them to make tuning pins so the consistency of diameter, and that they are straight, is important to me. ISO nails are what I get, I'm not saying they are perfect, but the amount of 'not good' is really small because at least in theory to get the ISO certification they have to meet the standards. Taiwan actually turns out some good stuff, completely different than China. Machinery is decent, in my experience (Grizzly). But to me the best stuff for a small shop is the old Craftsman branded machinery and that's pretty much all I run, but I do have a bandsaw made in Switzerland, but I doubt they're in business either.

I don't buy fasteners at the big box stores. It just seems like using a driver will break the heads off with little torque applied. The big box stores are also overpriced. There are plenty of businesses that sell good fasteners for a fraction of the cost. Sometimes you will have to buy a box. I just keep them around because I will just them for something eventually. Quite a few of these businesses with sell loose fasteners that they found when sweeping the floor for a fraction of what an individual one will cost at Home Depot. One of them gave me a small bucket of nuts and bolts that they swept up when sweeping the floor. I guess if you only need a few low quality bolts Home Depot will work if you are in a hurry. However, if you are working on a real project you should take the time to price fasteners at a business that specializes in that line of hardware. You will get better fasteners are a lower cost than Lowes or Home Depot.

I like the old Craftsman too. The only time I broke any of their hand tools was when I didn't use the right tool for the application. Things like using a standard socket to remove cylinder head bolts. But, Sears replaced them and I started buying better sockets because it was cheaper than driving to Sears cost more than the value of the sockets I had to get replaced. I have some of their newer sockets. So far so good, but the prices for their hand tools is really getting expense.

 

[Blmpkn]

Good video of a grumpy Canadian torque testing different fasteners...

Tldw: the Asian offerings were stronger

 

[sgtsandman]

I’ve seen issues with the ownership/ management of domestic oil refineries and power plants. Instead of putting money aside for rebuild and refits, they know the life cycle of the equipment, maybe 10 years or 30 years or whatever, they run lean. Then when it’s time for a major retrofit they go bankrupt. Stupid, but I’m sure a few guys make an enough money where it didn’t matter to them if they screw the economy for half the country.

This is part of the reason gas prices are so high compared to 6 years ago. A lot refineries have shut down in the past few years.


Also, Fuji made some really garbage industrial motor controls. They like to catch on fire. My parent company had a major lawsuit with them because of it.

Unfortunately, bankruptcy is an accepted business model and practice anymore. Just like being on government assistance. It used to be a thing of shame and something to avoid at one time but not any longer.

 

[Bill]

Unfortunately, bankruptcy is an accepted business model and practice anymore. Just like being on government assistance. It used to be a thing of shame and something to avoid at one time but not any longer.

There's also something called a strategic bankruptcy. Investors love it. It allows them to take debt from other parts of their portfolio, destroy one of their "investments" and get away with not paying debt.

 

[Blmpkn]

 

[Fast Eddie]

Worth mention is that Chinese products were dumped on our markets at a cost that wasn't much more than the cost of raw materials to produce the same items here. The price of these products and the value of the Yuan were manipulated to give China an unfair advantage. Also, there's quite a bit of manufacturing in China that is government-owned, so they could afford to sell products below cost to manufacture. Then there's the cost of shipping products from China to overseas markets. How is it profitable to ship low-cost items around the world and sell them for 59¢? I know things like spatulas are imported in large volumes. But, think about the logistics involved in shipping them from manufacturer to a port in China, loading them on a ship, the cost of fuel, then reverse the process in the US, Canada, or Europe where taking them off a ship, loading them on trucks which take them to a distribution centers which then sell them to local distribution centers, then to a store? It doesn't make sense.

In summation of your observation, the balance sheet was never their objective. The Chinese (the CCP) are are a calculating and patient people. Their teachings enforce and reinforce it.

Their objective always was, and still is, to undermine the economies of other countries by stealing and overtaking their manufacturing and information technologies. They've secured the US manufacturing sector and in hot pursuit of its technology. More over, the One-China doctrine regarding Taiwan has nothing to do with a 'One-China'. It has to do with their chip technology and others that China needs for military domination to displace the US. They also maintain the largest oil stockpile (950MM barrels). Meanwhile. our SPRs are depleted to the lowest levels in over a decade.

Combine that with a US government that's in DC to line its own pockets and enrich themselves in lieu of representing the people that sent them there, and you can't miss the path we're on.

IMHO, a lot of people do not see what lie beneath China's actions. Our nation has been dumbed down by our education system, misplaced value systems and memes. They react to more of what they see and what the MSM tells them to believe than what they honestly know. The art of determined research and reading has all but disappeared.

China is not focused on the money. That comes later when they have the domination they seek over other nations. The belt and road initiative should be considered. Investments in Africa's rich mineral deposits and large swaths of American farm land should be added. Control the food and energy and you control the people. The list goes on.

All people here know what they've been told - China is a threat. Most of them don't know why or how. China has already infiltrated out higher education and learning centers. There's plenty proof for that. They've just been caught meddling in our K-12 classrooms with Confucius centers. They're attacking us at our very core: our youth. It's an almost infallible strategy of you think long and hard enough about, which is also becoming a problem in this country. People don't think for themselves anymore. They sit in front of a screen and let others tell them what to think. It's easier. It requires less effort on their part.

When you get past all the media hype and start digging, China has a long term objective measured in baby steps and milestones (decades). Manufacturing was a milestone for them. Technology is next. World domination by 2040?

The Chinese are a patient and calculating people. I'm convinced they're an existential threat to our existence

 

[Bill]

In summation of your observation, the balance sheet was never their objective. The Chinese are are a calculating and patient people. Their teachings enforce it.

Their objective was, and still is, to undermine the economies of other countries by stealing and overtaking their manufacturing and information technologies. They've secured the US manufacturing sector and in hot pursuit of its technology. More over, the One-China doctrine regarding Taiwan has nothing to do with a 'One-China'. It has to do with their chip technology and others that China needs for military domination to displace the US. They also maintain the largest oil stockpile (950MM barrels). Meanwhile. our SPRs are depleted to the lowest levels in over a decade. Combine that with a US government that's in DC to line its own pockets and enrich themselves in lieu of representing the people that sent them there, and you can't miss the path we're on.

IMHO, A lot of people do not see what lays beneath China's actions. Our nation has been dumbed down by our education system and memes. They react to more of what the see and what they're told than what they honestly know. China could care less about the money. That comes later when they have the power they seek over other nations. The belt and road initiative should be considered. All people here know is China is a threat. Most of them don't know how or why.

When you get past all the media hype and start digging, China has a long term objective measured in baby steps and milestones. Manufacturing was a milestone for them. Technology is next.

Craftsmen is made in China now and the price you're paying is for name brand recognition, not quality.
why are craftsman tools made in china - CraftyThinking

Oh yes, I am well aware of that, and this is exactly what the opposition to the Most Favored Nation Status brought up. Especially regarding the security risks involved if we lost the ability to manufacture things like vehicle parts.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Oh yes, I am well aware of that, and this is exactly what the opposition to the Most Favored Nation Status brought up. Especially regarding the security risks involved if we lost the ability to manufacture things like vehicle parts.

In fairness, I significantly expanded my response after you commented on it. Just wanted it out there.

 

[Josh B]

Oh yes, I am well aware of that, and this is exactly what the opposition to the Most Favored Nation Status brought up. Especially regarding the security risks involved if we lost the ability to manufacture things like vehicle parts.

We used to laugh at the souvenir shops where we'd stop. My father took us on many adventures, I only realized now that is what they were. He was a true character.
The little souvenirs were spoons, bells, whatever, and each spoke of the places they were there to represent, yet, each one had a label underneath that said "Made In Japan", and later Taiwan, etc etc.

After the two world wars, which USA mostly won, the country got inundated with incoming hordes, much like happened to Rome. Our government paid their passage, gave them money, an apartment or maybe a house and a car. There were people riding around in cadilacs talking on their free phones living in their free houses, eating their free groceries, and laughing all the way to the bank

I'm fairly certain the last laugh is going to be on us :/