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Yellow Freight Bankruptcy


unions are such a waste. they should be blocked. we have them at work and they are useless

Anymore, yep. They are either weak and toothless or strong and sucking their and the worker’s means of income dry while enabling poor performing workers to keep their jobs.
 
This will affect the stock market I'm sure.. mostly gains to other carriers stock..

The question is who's gonna end up getting the biggest gains?
 
This will affect the stock market I'm sure.. mostly gains to other carriers stock..

The question is who's gonna end up getting the biggest gains?
You said you dipped your toe in the market. There may be a play here for you. But who? ABF?
 
You said you dipped your toe in the market. There may be a play here for you. But who? ABF?

I have NO idea. The action of 'dipping my toe' was brought about by pure impulse rather than actual smarts about anything 😋

I suppose you'd have to look at the regions where yellow did the most business.. and then pick one of their local competitors?
 
unions are such a waste. they should be blocked. we have them at work and they are useless
As the shop steward and on the negotiating committee for my union, I can’t agree with anything you said. (Except maybe that you have them at work.) As a government employee, we are very susceptible to nepotism and favoritism. The only thing that keeps the powers that be in check is the union. Yes, it makes it hard to get rid of the lazy workers, but they pretty much leave on their own after a few years.
 
I have NO idea. The action of 'dipping my toe' was brought about by pure impulse rather than actual smarts about anything 😋

I suppose you'd have to look at the regions where yellow did the most business.. and then pick one of their local competitors?
You learn quick, Grasshopper ;)
 
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Yellow had an Immense yard in Nashville, I was out there several times in my Ebay days, also there was one with a green insignia, I can't think of their name. I had been buying some incredible machines from Gov't agencies and had found they were not impossible to ship. From TN I shipped pallet size items to New York, and even to Vancouver Canada
It was actually easy and not formidably expensive, I got very familiar with a company not far from from where I lived and mostly used them, they could get it to anywhere, and mostly people were surprised how inexpensive it to move such large items, and on their end, they could get it loaded in a pickup truck.

Unions I had been Steel or Iron workers in the Homestake mine, not sure exactly which, it was a long time ago , then into the oil field, they didn't have unions, I was of a mind they paid us better there than unions would anyway.
In Nashville it was the Iron workers also I believe, not really positive, but I found something there I didn't care for, it seemed we'd gotten shorted, and it being a "right to work" state, I kept working there but quit the union. I was there as a ship fitter, amazingly similar to carpentry but a fitter uses a torch and a carpenter uses a saw, basic difference I suppose

I eventually got back to my roots in carpenter work, and I had learned that the biggest project available was to me the best place to go. I would go in the projects main office and ask for the superintendent, tell him I was a carpenter and could do anything needed done. I got a lot of jobs just walking into the main office.

There was a number of times I had gone to the carpenter union, and what they wanted was a substantial initiation fee, which I as an unemployed worker of course did not have available.

The many times I had approached them for work, and the many times they had demanded a substantial fee made it easy for me, whenever they would come onto the location and hand me a card, I would not even take it

There is a big difference in unions that work for the members good, and those who are mostly after their money, I delt with both over a very long time span
 
As the shop steward and on the negotiating committee for my union, I can’t agree with anything you said. (Except maybe that you have them at work.) As a government employee, we are very susceptible to nepotism and favoritism. The only thing that keeps the powers that be in check is the union. Yes, it makes it hard to get rid of the lazy workers, but they pretty much leave on their own after a few years.


this is exactly my union experience. i am a federal gov employee and union 21xx represents the people where i work. i joined when i first got picked up here because i didn't know anything about unions or working on base.

at my one year mark, out i got because all i saw was them taking people's money, them not being able to show up to represent people because they were never at work and always doing union stuff off base, and the union president, vp, and the officers taking trips and paying for their family cell phones using the union money.

than i became a shop supervisor and had to deal with the union from the management side of federal emplyees. thats even more of a joke!! can you please not follow up with this action because so and so i my ex-husband? i know he has this issue and i have been trying to help him correct it i but its just been tough because his dad just died, or things like that.

yet they let employees who are good workers get screwed and stuff because they are not union officer buddies.

unions are so outdated and un-needed anymore. having dealt with this union for almost 20 years now, there is nothing anyone can do to change my mind because the union set my feelings in concrete
 
Right to work state here, we have plenty of unions but they are all basically toothless. When I was a janitor at a school I went to a union meeting and they wanted us all to join real bad. We asked what they would do for us and the answer was very close to "nothing." So why join?

Unions certainly had their place when there were no labor laws. Now that we have labor laws, I really do not see the benefit to society in general. I do not appreciate how they donate heavily to Democrats and they have the ability to run a good company into the ground fast. The concept of protecting workers is long gone, now it's simply to bleed a company dry and move on to the next. High pay/low productivity.

I also cannot get behind government employee unions at all. My wife works for the state and the place I work for has oversight by the state and contracts with them to provide services. There are little petty squabbles about things occasionally but our pay & benefits are ridiculously good. Overall things run pretty smooth and yet we aren't under the thumb of a union... weird.
 
my wife was actually a union steward here on base.

when it was time to vote for a new president, because the really really crooked one who was in place for 20 years finally retired, they asked my wife to be on the ballet as the vp or first something or other. she said no and got out of the union. she had been a union member for 14 years and a steward for almost the same amount of time.

she was mad because of all the 20 or 30 people on the steeward list, she got sent everywhere on base. none of hte other stewards would go to anything because they felt it kept them from being promoted since they were always in the offices fighting for whatever thing. so my wife complained and they would ahve her come to the union office 3-4 times a week and answer the phones while the actual union elected guys were out, off base doing whatever and having breakfast with each other. she finally said screw you guys and your bs.

every time there is elections, someone form the union tries to get her to come and be on the roster because they know she will get picked because everyone knows her on base. they still call and ask her stuff and employees still come and ask her to be in meetings with them.

but she said she is done with the fake stuff of being a useless union that just wants to pad their time sheets and pockets off the guys working the floor.


the union here got its affiliation revoked a few years back, maybe 5 or 6 years back, because of the dues not being paid from this level to the head office. where did the money go? no one knows. how many times has this union been audited for missing money? 2 times i know off.
 
Ours does do some things for employee representation, thus why I’m still in it. It’s ok but not great and it has helped keep management and the supervision somewhat at bay. It doesn’t help that a small percentage of those who qualify belong. But based on past experiences of unions in the civilian work place, I can’t really blame them.

Once place I applied to paid minimum wage and the benefits were poor to nonexistent but union membership was required for employment.

Another place I worked answered the union phone with the company name. It also was a minimum wage job to start but at least the benefits were ok and there were some raises if you stayed around long enough to get them. The pay wasn’t fantastic but you could get by and it did help build the resume.
 
He worked there 39 years, now has no job and no pension.
The pensions are probably ok. PBGC (Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation) takes over pension payments for such situations. I get a small pension from a company that went belly up many years ago. PBGC was set up for exactly these situations. He should contact them now, or, wait, and they'll probably write to him about it. Pensions, at least mine, don't have inflation clauses, but, it's still something.

the Japanese cleaned our clocks in the automobile industry
True, they did, but if you're talking about last century, I think there's a little more to it. In a statistics class ('81) the prof talked about this. Demming (you can wiki him) was a sort of genius or at least a trailblazer in applying statistics to quality control. His involvement with Japan goes way back. They applied his methods, while in the US, these methods were totally available and offered, but were ignored and rejected in favor of just turning out as much product as fast as possible. Good QC means you test a certain percentage of product and statistical methods tell you how many you should test to be representative of the total, and what the bad rate of product is and where the common problems are. It's nothing new. Probably part of the issue is, it costs to do it right, so no doubt a lot of decisions are made (poorly) by asking, what's it cost for good QC, compared to what's the chance something will require a recall/lawsuits and how much does that cost. It's shortsighted. You can read about his philosophy in the wiki article. "...the bulk of the causes of low quality and low productivity belong to the system and thus lie beyond the power of the work force". It doesn't help to just scream "zero defects" and "more productivity" at the workers, it just makes things worse.

If you build a million vehicles, you don't test a million. You test some number that is high enough that the chance you are missing a major problem is close to zero. That's not the same as zero defects, in manufacturing there are always defects. Now something like artillery shells, at least in the old films, they probably test them all, because if the shell is oversize it can result in catastrophic failure/deaths. For vehicles, if you pull x number off the line at completion and test them, you'll find out pretty quickly where the problems are and statistics tells you how many to test to achieve what level of confidence. You will not reach 100% good. But that costs money to do, so if you have the philosophy to build one trans, and make it work in all your vehicles, realizing yes there probably will be a bunch of problems, but, how much will that cost compared to building 5 different transmissions - well - you see the problem. "The perfect is the enemy of the good." You can target all perfect, that's fine, but you have to accept and realistically target something less (97%? 99%?) or you never get anything done.

I think more and more of vehicle manufacturing is robotic. That doesn't eliminate defects though, and you still need people to run and maintain the robots.

Like only working for a couple hours and finding a place to sleep for the rest of the shift.
Yup this is a problem. Funny, just yesterday I was thinking about working in a paper mill in the 70's. I was a young guy working there summers. I thought, if you work, get paid, you are supposed to be doing something. I kept asking the foreman what am I supposed to be doing? Finally he said "find a dark corner somewhere and take a nap." So there's plenty of blame to go around, partly at least based in no pride in workmanship and the adversarial relationship "salaried" vs "union". It's no wonder employee costs can be nuts. I remember if a machine went down, first you have to call an electrician for the lockouts. That maybe takes 5 minutes but he had to be called in, so, 4 hours probably. Pipe problem? need plumber. A bolt? Need a millwright. On and on. A lot of guys made a real good living taking the Sundays and holidays and overtime. You could get triple time (holiday pay plus Sunday) plus 1.5 overtime of all that, do the math, it's a lot.

I remember when the rail car company went belly up here, a while back, guys poured nuts and bolts down all the big drains and laughed. It's just representative of the adversarial relationship labor/management. You have workers trying to make a buck, don't really care about the product. There's sabotage to 'get back' at management. You have stockholders asking for return on investment, top management taking obscene bonuses and salaries, and the consumer is caught in between all of it.

Speaking of stock (Blmpkn), you could have made a killing on Ford - it was close to 11 and then went to 15, so if your timing was good, you could have made almost 50% on your money in a matter of months, maybe weeks. I was waiting for it to dip below 11, or even 10, it never did. Plus afaik they pay dividends pretty regularly, and, their price/earnings ratio is low. So all in all, there are lots of worse investments. I put money in T-bills, gets amost 5.5%, no risk, but here's the problem. That's barely keeping pace with inflation, so while it's nice to think, I made x on it, actually in terms of buying power, the money is worth no more, probably less, after the returns. The only nice thing about it is I'm not likely to wake up one morning and find out "US Treasury declares bankruptcy" because at that point everything worldwide would collapse.

I like to look at it and tell myself, great, I already made enough on T-bills to pay for new tires. The problem is, if I spend that, it's not a "freebie" because even though I have the same number of dollars I started with (after buying tires), those dollars don't have the buying power they did in the past.
 
True, they did, but if you're talking about last century, I think there's a little more to it. In a statistics class ('81) the prof talked about this. Demming (you can wiki him) was a sort of genius or at least a trailblazer in applying statistics to quality control. His involvement with Japan goes way back. They applied his methods, while in the US, these methods were totally available and offered, but were ignored and rejected in favor of just turning out as much product as fast as possible. Good QC means you test a certain percentage of product and statistical methods tell you how many you should test to be representative of the total, and what the bad rate of product is and where the common problems are. It's nothing new. Probably part of the issue is, it costs to do it right, so no doubt a lot of decisions are made (poorly) by asking, what's it cost for good QC, compared to what's the chance something will require a recall/lawsuits and how much does that cost. It's shortsighted. You can read about his philosophy in the wiki article. "...the bulk of the causes of low quality and low productivity belong to the system and thus lie beyond the power of the work force". It doesn't help to just scream "zero defects" and "more productivity" at the workers, it just makes things worse.

If you build a million vehicles, you don't test a million. You test some number that is high enough that the chance you are missing a major problem is close to zero. That's not the same as zero defects, in manufacturing there are always defects. Now something like artillery shells, at least in the old films, they probably test them all, because if the shell is oversize it can result in catastrophic failure/deaths. For vehicles, if you pull x number off the line at completion and test them, you'll find out pretty quickly where the problems are and statistics tells you how many to test to achieve what level of confidence. You will not reach 100% good. But that costs money to do, so if you have the philosophy to build one trans, and make it work in all your vehicles, realizing yes there probably will be a bunch of problems, but, how much will that cost compared to building 5 different transmissions - well - you see the problem. "The perfect is the enemy of the good." You can target all perfect, that's fine, but you have to accept and realistically target something less (97%? 99%?) or you never get anything done.

I think more and more of vehicle manufacturing is robotic. That doesn't eliminate defects though, and you still need people to run and maintain the robots.

I know of Demming, if it’s who I think you're referring to. While I won't let myself get into a protracted debate on economics and statistics, fast forward to the next century where China cleaned our clocks in the manufacturing sector, leaving us the rust belt and closed steel mills, while steadfastly gaining on the technology sector - poised, ready, willing and possibly able to clean or clocks there as well. The CHIPs act attempts to address the problem but I'm convinced that's driven more by a national intelligence finding and the threating invasion of Taiwan - a National Defense strategy rather than a concern for the American worker or bringing that technology home again to stay. We’re playing defense, not offense. Bad place to be.

Back to your points on the American auto industry, cuts had to be made elsewhere and quality suffered. Hence, our clocks were cleaned. The same reason businesses sent jobs overseas in the 90’s and beyond. China secured our manufacturing sector, India secured our technology sector, though the latter seems to be turning a corner. At one point in my career, we employed more than 300k+ employees. There were more technologists in India than in the United States. Why? Because labor costs were not only cheaper but the consulting companies that supplied that labor provided whatever benefits their employees were availed and there were only contractual commitments and buyout clauses. Think about that - they cost less than an American worker and still retained some of the luxuries (e.g. benefits). The consulting companies passed that cost off to us and India labor still made balance sheet sense. Go figure.

I won't sit here and berate the American worker. There are still a few good ones out there that work hard, do their job to the best of their ability and take pride in American craftsmanship and product. I fear the numbers are dwindling.

We may be witnessing a changing of the guard as a younger generation moves up through the ranks who've grown extremely fond of a sense of entitlement and excusable behavior - regardless of the ramifications. This is in part bore by the people that raised them. Someone referred to a job at a paper mill in the 70's. Sleeping on the job? Really? WTH? I worked the cotton mills of NC in the 70's. You got caught sitting on your ass, you were shown the door - right then and there. If I was shown the door for that in the 70’s my parents would have more than a few choice words to share with me.

The unions played a role in making the American worker and extremely burdensome part of the balance sheet. All the while union bosses played out their extravagant life styles at the expense of the very people who toiled before them - the people they were supposedly ‘protecting’. Unions fleeced the American workforce and they continue that practice today - plain and simple.

When pointing to statistical model of Japanese business management, there are a few more viewpoints worth considering. Labor costs: the Japanese worker was not near the burden on operating costs in the forms of salary, pensions and benefits that was demanded by unions in the United States. To focus on statistics presents a narrowing point of the entire picture. Pride is another. They took great pride in their zero-defect goal/policy and each employee was affirmed and acknowledged for being a part of it. A completely different business model, philosophy and psychology.

The Japanese placed emphasis on price and quality control so reduced ‘focus’ in other areas was less necessary. They beat us on price while building a better product. China wasn't as diligent and merely sold us stuff 'cheap' and we bought it - lock, stock and barrel. An older generation would turn a product over and if it was stamped ‘Made in China’ it was quickly placed back on the shelf.

We need to wake up fast and we better get our kids to wake up too or we're history.
 
Food for thought; the 1959 steel strike.

"In the long run, the strike devastated the American steel industry. More than 85 percent of U.S. steel production had been shut down for almost four months. Hungry for steel, American industries began importing steel from foreign sources. Steel imports had been negligible prior to 1959. But during the strike, basic U.S. industries found Japanese and Korean steel to be less costly than American steel even after accounting for importation costs. The sudden shift toward imported steel set in motion a series of events, which led to the gradual decline of the American steel industry. " Wikipedia quoted.

As Pogo sagely observed, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
 
Food for thought; the 1959 steel strike.

"In the long run, the strike devastated the American steel industry. More than 85 percent of U.S. steel production had been shut down for almost four months. Hungry for steel, American industries began importing steel from foreign sources. Steel imports had been negligible prior to 1959. But during the strike, basic U.S. industries found Japanese and Korean steel to be less costly than American steel even after accounting for importation costs. The sudden shift toward imported steel set in motion a series of events, which led to the gradual decline of the American steel industry. " Wikipedia quoted.

As Pogo sagely observed, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
That's I've heard said in more than one conversation,
"We wanted cheap, we got cheap"

China stole most everything they got from us

I've mentioned this before, Douglas MacArthur wanted to take China out after the Korean war, they were our enemy then and still are and he had the plans and the solders there to do it Our wimps in congress said no, and we've been suffering the consequences since
They were behind each war we had including Korea and Viet Nam. They are also working now to remove the dollar from the gold standard, which will leave us totally crippled.
 
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