Workshop plans

[Curious Hound]

Guys, I'd like to give you a little bit of background if you don't mind. I don't want to come off sounding like some adamant know-it-all. I am the first to admit that I do NOT know everything. However, this IS my area of expertise.

I am 56 years old. Growing up, my dad was an electrician. So I started learning this stuff very early. Ohms law and the resistor color code were in my head by 7th grade. My career started in the Navy where I was an electrician with nuclear power training. I then went into industrial maintenance. During my first civilian job, with Michelin tire Co., I studied and got my Master Electrician license so I could get away from rotating shift work. That was around 1991 or 92. I then opened my own electrical contracting company and ran that for about 8 years doing residential, commercial and industrial jobs. Since then I have continued to work as an electrician and Industrial maintenance technician in several jobs up to now. Currently at a BMW manufacturing plant. So, this is what I do. In some of my explanations for y'all, I will try to simplify things and get you what you need without bogging you down in complicated details. But above all, I want you to be safe. Electricity is no joke. It will kill you in a skinny split second and it will burn your house or shop to the ground if certain things aren't done right. This is not an area for guessing or doing something because that's how somebody's grandpa always did it and his stuff still mostly works.

Like I said. I don't know everything. If I don't know, I will say so and try to find out the answer. I am also not the only one who knows stuff. Just be careful who you get electrical advice from. I try hard to avoid a "holier than thou" attitude. If I do that, you may put me in my place.

 

[Uncle Gump]

I know enough about house/garage electrical to pay an electrician (I know a few) to do the layout/finesse work and save myself some money and do all the grunt work that needs to be done. I find I sleep better at night.

 

[rumblecloud]

Like I said. I don't know everything. If I don't know, I will say so and try to find out the answer. I am also not the only one who knows stuff. Just be careful who you get electrical advice from. I try hard to avoid a "holier than thou" attitude. If I do that, you may put me in my place.

You have no idea how much I appreciate the advice and knowledge I'm getting from you and Rick. I'm somewhat hesitant to ask because I don't want to take advantage of it. I enjoy learning and researching. If you wanna just point me in a certain direction, that'd be great too.
Just know that whatever you guys offer is gtratly appreciated.

t

 

[Rick W]

I completely concur that @ericbphoto knows what he’s talking about and he is not trying to be a know it all. Good guy, but obviously a youngster ;-). On the other hand, for balance, I’m definitely a know it all and I rarely know what I’m talking about. The magic is in the mix. I believe in asking questions and stirring up the pot so the experts step up!

If you look at my blueprints below, I sketched out how the two circuits run through the panel. Eric and I agree that it doesn’t matter where the breaker is in the panel. But you do have to be conscious of which feed circuit each breaker is on, and then simply track what’s on that circuit as it goes through your shop, and balance out what you use at the same time between the two incoming lines.

Second, Eric and I are both correct on the use of the term “serial” and “parallel.” And I will concede that Eric is more right for your purposes. But like any know it all, I have to defend myself.

For your uses, Eric’s sketch is dead on the money. The rest is simply semantics. Eric’s drawing shows outlets “wired in parallel” in a “series circuit,” series: each jumps off the one before. That is as opposed to two lines of outlets feeding off a single breaker. The two lines/circuits are in parallel, and outlets are wired in parallel, but each line is a series of outlets on one line.

I also quick sketched the spreadsheet I was talking about. Walk through your shop and list every single item that takes electricity. And then fill in the columns. In creating the spreadsheet, it might be helpful to do a quick floor plan sketch of your shop and where each of these would normally be located, and put in a first column that is simply item one, two, three, etc. balance each to either side of the electrical panel, the A side or the B-side, And then subdivide by each circuit breaker. That’s so you have the whole thing balanced between A and B, and then each subset Series of loads and outlets are balanced across several breakers.

I hope it makes sense

And for all, in deference to ‘Eric:

And keep in mind that a lot of this is covered in this reference manual:

 

[Rick W]

One afterthought regarding lights and maybe something like heaters or heat tape on water lines. You probably want to have at least a couple lights on a different circuit than the balance of the lights, so if that one circuit pops, you’re not standing there in the dark. Ditto if you’ve got heaters or heat tape on lines to prevent freezing and busted pipes. Double them up, and put them on different circuits, So if something pops, you don’t lose all your heat freeze something.

 

[Rick W]

@ericbphoto

I do have a question about the 110 versus the 220. You were talking about the wire’s capability, and you were right.

I was thinking about the amperage use of 110 versus 220. My fuzzy memory tells me that if you’re using 40 A on 110, if you shift to a 220 circuit, it would only draw 20 A. Is that correct? I thought the reason you ran more powerful things on 220, or three phase and on up, is because they would use less amperage, and therefore be a smaller electric bill, yes/no?

Peer into my dark old brain and tell me what I’m talking about...

If you straighten me out, I can sound smart to the next guy

 

[rumblecloud]

Chart is copied, saved and sent to lab for analysis. Will report findings soon as results come in.
Thanks.
r

 

[Dirtman]

@ericbphoto

I do have a question about the 110 versus the 220. You were talking about the wire’s capability, and you were right.

I was thinking about the amperage use of 110 versus 220. My fuzzy memory tells me that if you’re using 40 A on 110, if you shift to a 220 circuit, it would only draw 20 A. Is that correct? I thought the reason you ran more powerful things on 220, or three phase and on up, is because they would use less amperage, and therefore be a smaller electric bill, yes/no?

Peer into my dark old brain and tell me what I’m talking about...

If you straighten me out, I can sound smart to the next guy

Power companies charge by watts not amps so running the same device off 220vac instead of 110vac would not change the cost because the wattage does not decrease, only the amps. I have 480vac 3 phase in my shop and trust me... It's not cheap... To install or run...

If you have a 1,000 watt doohickey on 110vac it'll use 10amps, same doohickey on 220vac will use 5 amps, but it's still 1,000 watts. It's called doohickey law.

 

[Rick W]

Power companies charge by watts not amps so running the same device off 220vac instead of 110vac would not change the cost because the wattage does not decrease, only the amps. I have 480vac 3 phase in my shop and trust me... It's not cheap... To install or run...

If you have a 1,000 watt doohickey on 110vac it'll use 10amps, same doohickey on 220vac will use 5 amps, but it's still 1,000 watts. It's called doohickey law.

Understood. So the purpose of 220 over 110 is to reduce wire size, equipment size, etc., yes/no?

 

[Curious Hound]

I was thinking about the amperage use of 110 versus 220. My fuzzy memory tells me that if you’re using 40 A on 110, if you shift to a 220 circuit, it would only draw 20 A. Is that correct? I thought the reason you ran more powerful things on 220, or three phase and on up, is because they would use less amperage, and therefore be a smaller electric bill, yes/no?

That is correct. However, in that discussion, we were talking about wire size. In the context of the discussion, your comment could have mislead someone to believe that the wire ampacity (current carrying capacity) would change by using it on a 220v circuit vs 110volt circuit. Just needed to make sure that was clear to people.

A 1200watt microwave will use 10 amps on 120volts. If you could find a 1200watt microwave designed for 240volts, it would draw 5 amps. Same amount of power/electricity used. But less current.

 

[Curious Hound]

Understood. So the purpose of 220 over 110 is to reduce wire size, equipment size, etc., yes/no?

Yes. Reduces cost of building the machine and wiring the circuit to power it in most cases.

 

[Curious Hound]

1,000 watts. It's called doohickey law.

"OHMS" Law.

Doohickey law is more mechanically oriented.

 

[Curious Hound]

Power companies charge by watts not amps so running the same device off 220vac instead of 110vac would not change the cost because the wattage does not decrease, only the amps. I have 480vac 3 phase in my shop and trust me... It's not cheap... To install or run...

If you have a 1,000 watt doohickey on 110vac it'll use 10amps, same doohickey on 220vac will use 5 amps, but it's still 1,000 watts. It's called doohickey law.

Wish I had a shop with 3 Phase power. Yes, the breaker panel, meter base, basic monthly cost from electric Co. Are higher. But it's a lot easier to find used lathes, milling machines, etc. Designed for 3 phase.

 

[Dirtman]

Wish I had a shop with 3 Phase power. Yes, the breaker panel, meter base, basic monthly cost from electric Co. Are higher. But it's a lot easier to find used lathes, milling machines, etc. Designed for 3 phase.

Simple solution, win the lottery and buy a bunch of phase converters!

I just got lucky in that my street is commerical/industrial on the side with the power lines so it was just a matter of begging PSE&G to toss one of them sweet sweet industrial lines over to my house so I could have a 3 phase panel. They wouldn't give me 480v though, I had to do that with my own transformer.

 

[Curious Hound]

Simple solution, win the lottery and buy a bunch of phase converters!

I just got lucky in that my street is commerical/industrial on the side with the power lines so it was just a matter of begging PSE&G to toss one of them sweet sweet industrial lines over to my house so I could have a 3 phase panel. They wouldn't give me 480v though, I had to do that with my own transformer.

And then another transformer to develop your 240/120 or 208/120 voltages. Transformers ain't cheap.