will sagging coils show up in alignment report

[sickwilly]

My front tires are wearing on the inside, the left isn't that bad, but the right is the one I'm concerned with; it wears almost entirely on the inside ( its new so its kinda easy to see) I even thought about seeing if I could have the tire flipped around just so i could get my money's worth out of it. Anyway I had an alignment done several months ago and im still getting bad inner tire wear and the alignment printout shows: left and right respectively-
camber -.5 / -.4
caster 2.1 / 2.4
toe. .05 / .03
Everything appears to be dead center except for caster, which shouldn't cause inside tire wear.
My first question is -with computerized equipment (its a new Kaufmann so i assume new equipment) how possible is it that the tech screwed up and the printout is somehow wrong. Not very likely i would think.
So assuming its right, my main question is: if I had worn springs, ball joints, something out of whack or whatever ,wouldn't the printout still show camber as being off. I would think the obvious answer is yes but I aint a mechanic so I'll ask.
The truck is a 2003 XLT ,no lift , no extras, bone stock.
FWIW I have swapped the 2 fronts and the other tire wears the same way, so it doesnt appear to be just that tire. I also replaced both outer tie rods and one inner tie rod right BEFore the alignment and nothing else appears to be worn.
So IF i had worn coil springs (just as an example)causing negative camber, would that show up in the report. I would think so, just not sure how literal i should take that printout. I appreciate any help.

 

[bobbywalter]

This is a depends answer. And if they have really fluid jounce plates, a guy better know wtf he is doing.


Couple things, the axles are different sizes and swing in different arcs. Its at rest numbers will vary from its moving numbers based on several factors.

But, using your at rest numbers....

If its over center in axle shaft alignment, it usually wears the outsides of the tires


If it is under center of axle shaft alignment it tends to wear the inside of the tires

That is with normal offset wheels and stout springs

Soft or worn spring and weak shocks also factor in.


On performance applications with custom spring rates i need to actually see it go down the road at 45, 70 and 90 to find the best parameters as you adjust it. Even then it is tough to keep wear normal.

 

[lvwill]

Sagging springs on a ttb or tib definitely cause a toe out issue that will result in inside tire wear problems.

 

[sickwilly]

To be clear, i have no reason to think the springs are bad; i just thought that IF the springs ( or anything else was out of whack) would the camber reading be near 0 - could it be near 0 if it was done right. I mean if the camber reading is true, i dont know why the inside wear is so bad. I guess i just figured the alignment machines were pretty much idiot proof with computers and all, but i have no idea.

 

[adsm08]

Sagging springs will throw the alignment off, which is one of the reasons you should have the alignment checked periodically. But adjustments made during an alignment should be able to take that out and put things back to right, even with sagging springs.

 

[bobbywalter]

Sagging springs on a ttb or tib definitely cause a toe out issue that will result in inside tire wear problems.

Sagging springs....with alignment in a uncorrected position from the day it was born will have a readily apparent camber and toe issue visibly from even the untrained eye.


On those springs , you set the alignment to the spec and , at rest, the camber and toe will look great.

Start rolling down the road and once you hit some bumps things will get janky.


That is the under center condition i refer to. On the old bear and hunter racks our specs were tied to measured ride height at the stops. Problem then was they only listed factory ride heights.

What i learned with these systems (1980's captain cavepig tech of course) was to set it, drive it...check it, roll it off and back on and check it again.

Its why i went to rolling toe sets, best way i have for mitigating excessive wear.


They variance in ride height if there is one could be read as a spring rate issue.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Sagging springs on a ttb or tib definitely cause a toe out issue that will result in inside tire wear problems.

OP's truck is not TTB/TIB.

 

[bobbywalter]

OP's truck is not TTB/TIB.

Nice.

 

[sickwilly]

OK, I appreciate the response.
Bobby, I'm trying to soak in what you said, not sure what over/under center means. Im not a mechanic so a lot of the terminology goes over my head. Something i did notice that i thought didn't seem right was the space between the shock bumper stop and the frame (where it hits) was about 2"; that doesn't seem like much, but I wouldn't know so..

 

[Denisefwd93]

OK, I appreciate the response.
Bobby, I'm trying to soak in what you said, not sure what over/under center means. Im not a mechanic so a lot of the terminology goes over my head. Something i did notice that i thought didn't seem right was the space between the shock bumper stop and the frame (where it hits) was about 2"; that doesn't seem like much, but I wouldn't know so..

The tilt of the wheel,
over is the top tilting and the bottom is in.
under is the top in and the bottom out.

From tinkering with the alignment on my 94 It's quite clear the front springs on it are sagged because, the camber (tilt of the wheels) is just about maxed out with the caster bushings. when they sag they tilt in.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

TIB/TTB trucks (83-97) are very susceptible to sagging springs messing up the alignment because it is basically a stick that pivots in the middle of the truck.

98+ trucks are more like a four link so if it would effect the alignment it wouldn't be as much.

I don't know much about 98-11 trucks though, it has been 15 years since I even rode in one.

 

[Denisefwd93]

TIB/TTB trucks (83-97) are very susceptible to sagging springs messing up the alignment because it is basically a stick that pivots in the middle of the truck.

98+ trucks are more like a four link so if it would effect the alignment it wouldn't be as much.

I don't know much about 98-11 trucks though, it has been 15 years since I even rode in one.

Yup! My decision now is; do I want springs or spring blocks or whatever they call them.

 

[bobbywalter]

what i was referring too was the actual axle centerline on a ttb application and not your sla system.

ttb usually brings the alignment pain...


i did not look at exactly what you were working with and ASS-U-ME,ed you were working with a ttb, which you are not... because i am not really sure how they could fawk up a sla....

which to be fair...if they are fawking up a sla they will never fix a ttb


though, oddly enough what i said applies 75 percent.


rotate the tires and monitor....may need more toe in.

 

[pjtoledo]

OK, I appreciate the response.
Bobby, I'm trying to soak in what you said, not sure what over/under center means. Im not a mechanic so a lot of the terminology goes over my head. Something i did notice that i thought didn't seem right was the space between the shock bumper stop and the frame (where it hits) was about 2"; that doesn't seem like much, but I wouldn't know so..

perfectly normal. 2" travel at the bumpstop is about 5" at the wheel.


we need a better description of "inner tire wear"

a tire with bad camber wear will be different than bad toe wear.

speaking in general terms:

if the camber is bad the tire will wear evenly from nothing on the outside, to 1/2wear at the middle, and maximum wear on the inner side.

if the toe is bad the tread surface can have a saw-tooth wear pattern as the wheel is essentially being dragged sideways. it will also cut the edge.

hard stops make the front squat, that changes camber and toe.

a lot of lean in hard cornering causes the inner tire to drop and that cuts the inside edge.

and lastly, some tires do not wear evenly no matter what you do. the original factory tires on my 2005 2wd were that way.

 

[sickwilly]

OK, i took it back to Kaufmann, they said the camber was off pretty bad. Im gonna put camber bolts on and take it back. Camber kits range from $10-30, is there any difference other than range of adjustment? -from rockauto probably.
Soooo apparently what I should have asked was - if you have an alignment done by three people, will you get three different answers. Evidently yes.