Who wants Phenolic spacers?????????????

[onewyr]

I am in talks with a guy at a machine shop I just did some work for that is willing to cut the spacers for the 2.9 and 4.0 we are in the early stages of this need to line up all them duckies first once I have an idea of how many then he will decide wheather it is worth writing the program
Lets make this happen

 

[88mudder]

how much?

 

[blackdog89]

interested how much and how thick they going to be?

 

[86isuzu]

yeah, im interested, price?

 

[Dave R]

What effect do you think a phenolic spacer is going to have on an EFI engine?

 

[fordman49450]

absolutely none unless it's TBI, then, maybe, and I say maybe a bit

 

[jetcjcski]

maybe a stupid noob question for an automotive engineer but is a phenolic spacer for the throttle body or inbetween the upper and lower intakes (i dont know if the 2.9 and 4.0 are 2 piece intakes) ? i have a 3.0

not sure what the tb spacer would do for ya but the one for inbetween would effectively lengthen your intake runners which may help. I know intakes are well engineered but they may have had length sacrifices for packaging or something. Also it will provide some insulation for heat transfer from the engine block to the intake.

Also it cant be that hard to write the program... its just a bunch of holes. Hmm maybe I should make one for myself...

 

[Will]

What effect do you think a phenolic spacer is going to have on an EFI engine?

That's what I was thinking.

The idea is to keep the fuel temperature down. There's no fuel in the intake of either a TBI of MPI. Both are continous loops and the fuel is cooled in the lines and tank. On a carb you store a bunch in the bowl and it gets heated up by the motor so the heat barrier--an aluminum shield and or the insulating spacer--makes sense.

 

[krugford]

I don't think these things are going to have a noticeable effect, if any. Putting a insulator between the upper and lower intakes may have the effect of keeping the upper intake a little cooler, but at the cost of slightly decreased throttle response. I also don't think there's enough room under the hood for a spacer here. Heck, my old 2.9L had a small wear spot where the plastic shield over the TB linkage rubbed the hood insulator. A spacer at the TB won't do a thing for heat transfer, but it will still affect throttle response. I would argue that the stock 2.9L upper intake is as good of an air gap intake as you're going to get anyways. Maybe if you could apply a thin film of ceramic insulation to the inside of the intake to help keep the incoming air charge from heating up....

 

[MAKG]

But it would be a good idea to grab a scan tool to see what the intake air temperature is under driving conditions before even thinking about thermal coatings.

'Cause when I've looked, it's pretty close to ambient even at idle (in the absence of a heat stove). Air just doesn't spend much time in the intake....

 

[onewyr]

http://www.broncoii-ranger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2658&highlight=phenolic
go to the link in the thread
they would be 3/8 inch and they go in between the upper and lower intake cost is still up in the air I gotta find out how many people ar interested and the talk with the machinist and get a price its gotta be worth his efforts. I will be supplying the phenolic I will be making no money on these just taking the cost of material

 

[samsonitesamsonite]

will do just about as much for you as the tornado.....

 

[predator]

a friend of mine did this, it got way worse throttle response, it spent maybe 3 hours installed on his truck.

then he went to a junkyard and got a junkyard 58mm throttle body and upper intake and he ported and polished the tb, half-shafted it and put razor edges on the butterfly, he ported and polished the upper intake and i currently dont know if he has finished the lower intake but i would think that he did. he ended up gasket matching them and he picked up a few mpg and i rode in the truck, much more powerful!!! we estimated at 5-10 horsepower gain.


so instead of spending money on something that may or may not work, how about you get a porting kit and grab a junkyard tb and intake???

 

[MAKG]

A few MPG and 5-10 HP from "porting" a stock engine with an oversize intake from the factory? BS.

You can't "estimate" power. You're fooling yourself. You can't FEEL power at all. Only acceleration. And a few MPG is a 10% effect. That's MASSIVE. Sounds like an accidental vacuum leak repair if it's even true.

And you really should look up BSFC before you claim massive mileage improvements AND power improvements at the same time. That's a nearly sure sign of flaming BS.

So, that advice essentially says to trade one thing that doesn't work for another.

 

[MAKG]

Blackbronc, this is not a Briggs & Stratton and this is not a race engine.

Yes, you can get over 100% VE at a specific RPM by carefully tuning the entire system to create a standing wave. Which is a physical effect (it really makes me wonder what you think isn't), closely related to waveguides. You don't do this by porting alone. You port when it's needed to optimize the system as a whole -- and you WILL need a camshaft to do this correctly. You also need to get the redline up or you're going to optimize your engine for an RPM you can't reach.

And porting so that it makes a difference is an aggressive operation. You CAN port a manifold and lose a lot of power -- bigger is not always better. And of course you weaken the castings whenever you do anything significant.

BSFC is affected very weakly by VE. It's quite hard to beat that 0.5 lb/hr/HP by very much. You make power BY BURNING FUEL. If you have a cheap POS B&S that runs at 1.5 lb/hr/HP, sure you can triple it if you know what you're doing. But just saying it can be tripled in isolation is a meaningless statement.

Oh, and if you believe dyno tests, it's physics that says you can relate the output of a generator to the engine output power (you did know that some dynamometers are generators, right?). Or if you believe gauges (including those used on water dynamometers), most of them work on magnetic principles. Ooh, physics again.