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Who wants Phenolic spacers?????????????

  • Thread starter Thread starter onewyr
  • Start date Start date

depending on the price I'll be interested in a 4.0l one. This is for the intake correct? Not the throttle body.
 
I've seen more people screw up engines with a die grinder than help them. If you have an old, crude engine--like a Briggs or a garden variety pre-80's clunker, yes you can help it with some intelligent grinding. I don't know about 20hp. Hard to say. But if you take an old 460 and stick your finger in the exhaust port and though the port looks big, you can't get your finger in--grinding out that big fawking air-pump lump has to help. Those old motors weren't designed very well so your guess is as good as Fords.

But on a modern engine, the factory does not have the luxury of slapping any damn thing together like they used to. They are trying to just certify the motor. Poor designs don't burn clean or efficiently. They cannot produce a really shitty head, one like a side-valve briggs, and expect it to meet the emissions and fuel economy standards--not to mention make competitive power.

Let's take an example piece of trash motor--a 1977 Camaro with a 350 4V. It made 170hp at 3800rpm and had 8.5-1 compression. If we plug that into our handy BEMP calculator you get 101psi of Brake Mean Effective Pressure. That's basically a yardstick to see how well an engine is using its cubic inches. Now take a pushrod 4.0 with 9.0 compression making 160hp @ 4200rpm--that works out to 124psi. The 1977 motor is in the junkyard because it was inefficient. You aren't going to make the pushrod 4.0 better with your grinder.

In fact, Ford didn't make it better with a grinder when they decided they needed 50 more horsepower to be competitive. They threw the pushrod heads away and built a cammer out of it--sort of like they did with the 429 way back when. The 207hp @ 5250rpm SOHC 4.0 posts a little better BMEP with 127psi, but they could not make the pushrod motor spin fast enough with the old ports--there was no way to make that old casting flow enough air. They had to enlarge and straighten the ports to much--they had to move the pushrods out of there. You could not do a valve pocket job on an already near perfect motor. That's why I never believe people that claim to have getten very much of an improvement out of a 4.0. Where did the gain come from? Why didn't Ford do it? Soup up your pushrod motor, claim it makes 50 more hp and then get your ass kicked by a SOHC 4.0.

Even the 127psi of that SOHC motor pales when you put it against an even more modern 4-valve variable cam timing, variable geometry intake manifold. Those motors are putting out BMEPs of 165psi. It wasn't that long ago that a factory turbocharged motor was putting out similar numbers.

The whole point being, in the past, they didn't need to make anything very good. Now, they have to make everything perfect. A team of 30 PhDs is responsible for developing just the controls technology for an engine manufacturer. Thousands of engineers, test cell operators and skilled craftsmen who can whip up an experimental part with their bare hands in a couple of days to experiment with a new twist or turn of a design all work together to produce the motor under your hood. If the bleeding phenolic spacer was going to do anything, it would be there already. A table spool of aluminum removed form 400,000 4.0 engines would have save Ford a bundle--and they suffer losses every year. A couple clicks of a mouse would have removed that metal--it's not there. It was there in the 1977 Chevy 350 because motors back then were shit.

Even Briggs and Stratton has to work now. They have overhead valves and such. Kohler has fuel injection now. Briggs is using plastic carbs and electronic ignistion. Nobody can build shit anymore. That's a good thing. But die grinder specialists will go out of business.
 
In fact, Ford didn't make it better with a grinder when they decided they needed 50 more horsepower to be competitive. They threw the pushrod heads away and built a cammer out of it--sort of like they did with the 429 way back when.
Picking nits

Actually it was the 427, not the 429. Made a nice motor out of it, easily made 650hp.
 
Sorry. I had an image of the Boss 429 in my head when I was writing that.

70boss429eng2.jpg


But this was what I was talking about.
250px-Ford_427_SOHC_Thunderbird.jpg
 
I've got a 1" spacer on the 5.0L i built for my ranager. Cost me $60.00 US. I did not buy it for the claim that it reduces temperature in the upper intake... actually i believe that coolant flows threw part of the upper intake intake if i remember correctly.... anyway.

The only advantage i can see you getting from a spacer would be you get more clearance for the fancy valve covers you bought for $70.00 that ended up being a little bit too tall to clear the upper intake manifold. Thats the only thing that those are good for in my opinion.

They are for dumb dumbs that got the wrong parts in the first place by accedent... HEY WAIT A MINUTE... i did that... DOH!

I can see a spacer being usefull if for some dumb reason you pull the valve covers off alot and you dont want to take the upper intake off as well... but then your going to need one hell of a spacer to be able to do that.
 
I've got a 1" spacer on the 5.0L i built for my ranager. Cost me $60.00 US. I did not buy it for the claim that it reduces temperature in the upper intake... actually i believe that coolant flows threw part of the upper intake intake if i remember correctly.... anyway.

The only advantage i can see you getting from a spacer would be you get more clearance for the fancy valve covers you bought for $70.00 that ended up being a little bit too tall to clear the upper intake manifold. Thats the only thing that those are good for in my opinion.

They are for dumb dumbs that got the wrong parts in the first place by accedent... HEY WAIT A MINUTE... i did that... DOH!

I can see a spacer being usefull if for some dumb reason you pull the valve covers off alot and you dont want to take the upper intake off as well... but then your going to need one hell of a spacer to be able to do that.

thats the nice thing about a 4.0l and 2.9l..don't need to take the intake off to pull the valve covers. I guess ford designed it that way cuz they knew the gaskets would end up leaking :rolleyes:
 
No, OHCs replaced them because OHCs can have far stiffer valvetrains without all those pushrods. Some of them don't have rocker arms either. They go faster. Hence higher peak power with the same or smaller displacement.

Your comment is true if you say "more than two valves per cylinder" instead of OHCs. Those DO breathe better, particularly at partial lift. The two changes seem to go together (not very surprising).

That bears repeating. The air pump analogy has its limitations. In particular, on the truck engines at hand, especially on a stock 2.9L, you run into valve float and/or other mechanical limitations before you run out of air. THAT'S why porting one is a waste of time, unless done as part of a complete system modification.

FYI, you don't have to remove the upper intake on a 2.9L to remove the valve covers, but you do on a 4.0L (well, for one of them anyway).
 
FYI, you don't have to remove the upper intake on a 2.9L to remove the valve covers, but you do on a 4.0L (well, for one of them anyway).

no, no you don't. You have to take the coil pack and bracket off, but not the intake.
 
so do you think porting the intakes are a waste of time cuz im so thinking of porting and put in 19lb injector
 
Unless you're changing the camshaft and adding headers it's a waste of time. If you must grind do the exhaust ports by reducing the bump in them and polish. The way the valve guide boss' are shaped no doubt hurts hi speed flow. You don't need the extra fuel without more flow thru the heads which are the limiting factor here not the intake or throttle body. The cams in these are very mild and without changing it I wouldn't expect more than 10% improvement with all intake/exhaust mods combined. Exhaust flow should always be the first place to look for easy gains not the intake which is much more difficult to improve.
 

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