Welding to your frame VS bolting.

[Rowdy Fitzgerald]

Both

 

[--weezl--]

Here's a thought, when talking about 'bolting on' to the frame - are we only discussing using factory holes or drilling your own?

HUGE factor!!!!

using factory holes, imo, without a doubt, bolting is better...

welding is fine on MOST frames, if you get ones that are.... heat tempered? i forget the terminology right now... then absolutely no welding to them!!!! the other 95% of frames on vehicles... toss up, they both have pros and cons, the heating and cooling of any metal, involved in welding it, will change the structure of the metal, and can potentially weaken it... but drilling holes in the frame actually removes metal from the frame, which is there to provide strength, you drill enough holes in anything, it looses all structural integrety...


i agree with whoever it was that said that if you need it removable, bolt it on... as for welding things on, personally i don't like it, but that's just me...

also fwiw, i did an axle swap on a volvo 35' cube van with a reefer, we switched it from a single rear axle to a FL tandem setup that was slightly farther forward. we bolted everything on, took something like 120, 7/8" bolts, then we had to go back in after the new axle was snugged up perfectly, and put a bolt, stover nut, and 2 washers on every single empty hole in the frame, so it would get through the quartly inspection that large commercial vehicles are required to go through here... makes for a huge pain in the ass

weekend warrior now, used to work in a heavy duty mechanic's shop, reparing any commercial vehicle, mostly suspension and frame issues, lengthening and shortening, adding tag axles, and also a shop that built dump trucks. THEY, btw, welded almost everything... obviously the hinges for the dump bodies are welded to the frame

 

[whissiswheelin]

I am Welder Fabricator also I was under the impression to weld plateswith radius'd corners onto sliders/cages then to frame to spread the surface area, use both bolts and weld. Fill in your craters etc...

 

[whissiswheelin]

Also dimple dies could help strengthen the frame if your drilling it and worried about it

 

[aaron88]

Went to votech for welding/automotive then Garage fab/self taught. I've welded everything from beam pivots too full cages and I've never had an issue with a frame after I welded too it. Here is a picture of my ranger and I have stuff welded too the frame all over the place.
Certain things yes by all means bolt it on but as far as cage work and shock mounting I would personally weld it on,

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[projectnitemare]

I'll chime in on this as well. What Junkie said has a lot to do with things but there are a lot of factors that apply to this question. Just some I can think of in a minute would be how rigid is the structure, is a sub structure being added, the skill of the person welding, the material being used? A poor weld of any nature will be more likely to fail just improper bolting of something will fail. There is obviously less still required to drill a hole and bolt something but in the same breath it does take skill and more work to create a bolt on roll cage. Each has benefits and drawbacks. But to the average frame which is mild steel a correctly performed weld will not hurt anything. As said before you cannot weld to a heat treated frame. I don't even know if I should open this can of worms, but everyone thinks they are doing good building cages from chomoly, unless you have a place to heat treat the cage when you are done welding it you are better off to use mild steel.

 

[Rangurr]

Am I correct in assuming that Rangers were never produced with heat treated frames? I'm trying to decide right now if I should go ahead and weld my front hitch receiver in or if I should spend the time/money to make brackets and whatnot. I don't plan on holding more than a few hundred pounds with this receiver at any point, nor do I plan on pulling anything for prolonged distances - maybe just pulling down trees and such but I'll probably use my tow hooks for that instead.

Opinions?

Note - this is a receiver off of an older blazer that has the tube receiver mounted below the bar. The bar itself is long enough to touch the outer ends of the frame. I plan to go ahead and weld the bar to the bottom of the frame rails so that the raised tube receiver sits right in the stock hole on the Edge fascia.

 

[Snoranger]

I don't even know if I should open this can of worms, but everyone thinks they are doing good building cages from chomoly, unless you have a place to heat treat the cage when you are done welding it you are better off to use mild steel.

Look at that... a man who knows what he is talking about.

 

[aaron88]

I'll chime in on this as well. What Junkie said has a lot to do with things but there are a lot of factors that apply to this question. Just some I can think of in a minute would be how rigid is the structure, is a sub structure being added, the skill of the person welding, the material being used? A poor weld of any nature will be more likely to fail just improper bolting of something will fail. There is obviously less still required to drill a hole and bolt something but in the same breath it does take skill and more work to create a bolt on roll cage. Each has benefits and drawbacks. But to the average frame which is mild steel a correctly performed weld will not hurt anything. As said before you cannot weld to a heat treated frame. I don't even know if I should open this can of worms, but everyone thinks they are doing good building cages from chomoly, unless you have a place to heat treat the cage when you are done welding it you are better off to use mild steel.

I've never built a cage out of chromoly. Suspension components yes. I prefer DOM.


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[UrbanRedneckKid]

When did this turn into a DOM VS Chromoly thread...?

I prefer chromoly, but that has a lot to do with NHRA chassis rules. It also can save 200+/- lbs in a chassis, not to mention it's consistently more true to it's size than DOM. The added strength of the tubing also requires less structure than DOM, ultimately resulting in a stronger lighter racecar.

Cost wise, DOM all the way!

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[projectnitemare]

Look at that... a man who knows what he is talking about.

That engineering degree comes in handy from time to time.

This didn't turn into a DOM vs chromoly debate unless you want it to. The point is the welding of materials, unless you know what it is and how to weld it doing so can be a bad idea. Heat treated steel and alloys such as chromoly will require more than a pass with a welder. For example a piece of chromoly should be normalized after welding to prevent cold cracking. Yes I know a billion people booger weld the stuff and it holds fine but it will be prone to cracking. Same reason not to weld a heat treated frame. To my knowledge I don't know of any 1 ton or smaller truck that has a heat treated frame the are some form of mild steel.

 

[--weezl--]

Am I correct in assuming that Rangers were never produced with heat treated frames? I'm trying to decide right now if I should go ahead and weld my front hitch receiver in or if I should spend the time/money to make brackets and whatnot. I don't plan on holding more than a few hundred pounds with this receiver at any point, nor do I plan on pulling anything for prolonged distances - maybe just pulling down trees and such but I'll probably use my tow hooks for that instead.

Opinions?

Note - this is a receiver off of an older blazer that has the tube receiver mounted below the bar. The bar itself is long enough to touch the outer ends of the frame. I plan to go ahead and weld the bar to the bottom of the frame rails so that the raised tube receiver sits right in the stock hole on the Edge fascia.

as jack skellington said, no, the frames aren't heat treated, the only heat treated frames i've seen are on 5 ton and heavier trucks...

as for your hitch, if you were going inside the frame, i would say it's your call, but i wouldn't weld it to the bottom of the frame, i wouldn't ever weld to the frame flanges, this is partially to do with work history and always being told never to weld to frame flanges, and part to do with weld area and pulling forces... if you're going under the frame, just have brackets made, they can be made for cheap, then either weld those to the sides of the frame, or bolt them

FWIW, hitches IIRC, in canada are not allowed to be welded, the strength must come from bolts, or design where the strength isn't reliant on welding so if you've got a hitch with brackets on the side, if you're welding the brackets to the hitch it's self, the hitch has to go through holes in the brackets, so the design of the bracket holds the hitch together. It can then be welded to make it rigid

 

[Rowdy Fitzgerald]

So I'm planning on extending my stock cast radius arms. I'm going to be using 3/8x 1 1/2 dom. I'm going to wrist the passenger side. Any of the profesionals here got advice? Anybody know the best rod to use? I've talked to a couple people and they said to heat it up to 400 deg and keep it over 350 while welding. Use a high nickel content rod but no one said a brand or specific rod. Once I'm done welding it wrap it up in a heat blanket and let it cool on it's own.

 

[Rowdy Fitzgerald]

Bump

 

[--weezl--]

that sounds like what I have heard in the past... Maybe wrap it up after heating, and before welding?

could just bolt instead...