Update and wheeling pix

[ThatGuy]

Like I said, glad to see that's it's been used with good results. Why has no one put it out to purchase? I'm no rocket scientist but it only took about 45 mins. to put the whole thing together. We backed it out and had to pull it back in and adjust the toe out and I've been driving on it ever since.

 

[4x4junkie]

Like I said, glad to see that's it's been used with good results. Why has no one put it out to purchase? I'm no rocket scientist but it only took about 45 mins. to put the whole thing together. We backed it out and had to pull it back in and adjust the toe out and I've been driving on it ever since.

That's the $1,000,000,000,000 question! I haven't a clue why. I've even asked people about it and it seems no one even takes the question seriously Whoever does though will certainly have the market cornered for sure (I'd do it myself, but I don't have any means or the time to take up manufacturing stuff). The fact that particular setup you got is so simple should be appealing to many too, which has always been a sticking point with Swingset setups and even the K-link setup (I might even consider getting it myself if it comes out). However for it to be truly mass-marketable, I think it would need to have TREs.

 

[CopyKat]

However for it to be truly mass-marketable, I think it would need to have TREs.

That's the $1 000 000 000 answer right there.

The only reason I can see that the superlift setup is viable is because of the TRE setup and the center mounting block.

Welding tierods together is a big no no. You then have the possibility of a weld failing and then it's an accident waiting to happen.

The only way you could get around it is to have a custom TRE taper block machined and have threaded so that a proper TRE or threaded adjuster can be used.

Also Heims on a steering setup is also a no Bueno.

You can do whatever you like on an Off highway vehicle, but getting any type of DOT rating on a product is going to require a ton of thought.

No offense to your fabricator but the U shaped piece is set up to fail and it will be a matter of time (Short time at that) and it will fail, causing loss of control. Would be no different than a TRE failing you say. Tru but a TRE failure is a brocken casting due to lack of maintenance, not a failed weld.

Your weld is only as strong as the base metal. 1/8" strap on a steering linkage is a fail about to happen. same with mounting the Heims in a single shear application like that.

Find parts off the shelf that use TRE and you may have a marketable product. What you have is not, and should not even be used on the road.

Sorry to be the Dick. Others may agree with me.

Bobby Walter tried with many off the shelf and junkyard setups. I have a couple pictures of what he was playing with but nothing worked for good offroad and onroad manners. It was one or the other.

Also your geometry is still not the best as the pass wheel droops the Drivers side TRE goes out of phaze.

The Truely best setup is a Swingset setup but then lift brackets become the issue and messes with the geometry.

 

[ThatGuy]

CopyKat,
Not to start a pissing match but I disagree with a couple of your statements. I respect your opinions as I have asked for them on several occasions.

No offense to your fabricator but the U shaped piece is set up to fail and it will be a matter of time (Short time at that) and it will fail, causing loss of control. Would be no different than a TRE failing you say. Tru but a TRE failure is a brocken casting due to lack of maintenance, not a failed weld.

Your weld is only as strong as the base metal. 1/8" strap on a steering linkage is a fail about to happen. same with mounting the Heims in a single shear application like that.

While I agree about the single shear mounting, the 1/4" plate (not 1/8") is being re-done to spread the load out more. It is also fully welded inside and out completely around the tubing. I see no difference in this vs. cutting the K-link apart to drop the 2" everyone is so quick to suggest.
This is the way it will be done (shown here in a hydro-assist setup turning 42s)

Also the heim vs. TRE debate is mute. I've seen both fail. Shit happens. They are both manufactured to high standards and to be honest, I'm more worried about the Grade 8 bolt than the heim. The only issue with running the heims is if your state will allow it. Other than that, I seriously doubt anyone would have an issue with it. Maintenance is the only issue that affects both, grease a TRE, keep a heim clean and shoot it with some lube. They both wear out eventually but are easy to replace.

Also your geometry is still not the best as the pass wheel droops the Drivers side TRE goes out of phaze.

Never said it was the best, I did say that I can now drive without ratchet straps holding the frontend down. For a TTB suspension I doubt anyone can come up with a system that is the best. If they did it would cost way more than $400 I bet. The system I have works and it works well, it may not be optimum, but it works better than what I had.
I'd be more worried about the bent arms in a swingset system than anything that is on the system I have. The tube and heims that are on mine have been proven to work.

I don't think you are a Dick, you have the right to your opinions. I agree with some and disagree with some. I also wanted to point out where you were incorrect on the thickness of the plate. All in all, it's just another product that may or may not make it. If you don't like, don't buy.




P.S. Bronco Driver mag is published right here in Knoxville. I read every issue.

 

[4x4junkie]

I was gonna say, that bracket looked waaaayyy thicker than 1/8" to me... The design of it is obviously an early prototype, especially if it only took 45 minutes to whip it together.

As for geometry, the important thing here is that it reduces in colossal proportions the toe-in & toe-out bumpsteer of the wheels, which in turn causes the suspension to jack & squat and do all sorts of weird shit (as you should know, the geometry of the stock linkage ain't exactly all that perfect either). This setup also looks like it would be way more forgiving of the pitman arm-to-lift height mismatches that are so overwhelmingly common with TTB suspension lifts too. Unless you're gonna be using the thing in competition, I don't see the small variations in it's geometry being noticed much, if at all (and is the primary reason I've stuck by the K-Link setup even though it's tierods are shorter than ideal).

I really am curious enough about this setup that I may possibly consider trying it on mine. I still have to think about it for awhile though because once the knuckles are reamed out, no more TREs again if for some reason I don't like the heims.

 

[Bent Bolt]

Junkie , you can always install new knuckles and pitman arm if you want to go back to TRE's.

 

[ThatGuy]

I've already called Anthony and talked to him about a TRE version. He's gone to the Bama Brawl this weekend but when he gets back we are gonna work on it. I'll keep you informed on how it goes.

 

[legoms013]

As far as I can tell I can't find any specific piece of literature saying Heims are "illegal", just not DOT approved (but hey alot of what we do isn't "approved"). But it is up to the inspection official's judgement on whether to hassle a person about it if they have them on their vehicle's steering linkages. And just like anything else, some cops know their stuff, others don't.

So its frowned upon and sorta a govt gray area. At least that is what it seems like from reading other forums and a few articles about vehicle laws. Go heims at your own risk (I'm going to ).

I'm thinking about building my own linkage setup like yours ThatGuy, except with TRE's on the outer ends and heim at the middle joint connecting the driver side tie-rod with the driver side knuckle. I've got Dodge & Chevy 3/4 ton tie-rods and drag-links lying around, as well as Jeep CJ stuff. Lets see if I can turn this garbage all around me into something useful. I'm tired of tripping over it anyway.

 

[4x4junkie]

Junkie , you can always install new knuckles and pitman arm if you want to go back to TRE's.

I realize that. I guess what I was saying is that it's a permanent thing unless I do swap knuckles.

 

[Bent Bolt]

As far as I can tell I can't find any specific piece of literature saying Heims are "illegal", just not DOT approved (but hey alot of what we do isn't "approved"). But it is up to the inspection official's judgement on whether to hassle a person about it if they have them on their vehicle's steering linkages. And just like anything else, some cops know their stuff, others don't.

So its frowned upon and sorta a govt gray area. At least that is what it seems like from reading other forums and a few articles about vehicle laws. Go heims at your own risk (I'm going to ).

.

Heims certainly need more attention than TRE's in maintenance and I think that alone is why some companies and people shy away from them for steering. That said, I go on runs that usually are 3+hours away and a month apart. I usually have to repack wheel bearings and give the ball joints a shake and shot of grease. I go over my truck after EVERY run. That is why I have no issues using heims .

I also pit for my buddy who races a Wissota late model dirt car. Heims used all over. Even after wrecks and impacts, I have yet to see a heim out and out fail. Bend and twist and wear out - yes , but not break. And as for mounting in a single shear , again I have see cars roll and literally disintegrate the suspensions and the 3/4 or even the 5/8 grade 8 bolts and heims are still together.

Again , maintenance and inspection is key.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[fordxranger]

lots of good info in here for me, PFL.

 

[Burnside]

So why again are you wanting to swap in a hp D44?

I've been debating all winter- I have a dana 60 laying on the floor next to all my ttb junk. but I'm having a really hard time justifying the extra couple grand its gonna take to get the bII back on the trail sitting on tons. I'm still up in the air with everytyhing, honestly the ttb has been good to me.

 

[ThatGuy]

So why again are you wanting to swap in a hp D44?

Because that was my original plan even before I purchased the Ex.

I used to co-own a shop that built suzuki samurais, at one point I owned 9 of them in stages from stock to tube and tires. I have always loved building and fabricating and just working on junk in general. When I moved to East Tn I had planned on building a 4-door suzuki sidekick so that my wife and 2 boys could enjoy the trails with me.
Skip all the blah, blah, blah---I was on Craigslist one day and found the Ex for sale for $400. I bought it and started gathering parts to do a SAS right away. I was out riding around one day and stumbled on the James Duff shop near my house. I stopped in and had a look around and began talking to them about coming up with a completely bolt-on SAS kit for the RBVs. They agreed but noted they had some new products in development but didn't have a RBV to test them on. One thing lead to another and I agreed to test the products on a TTB lift if afterwards they would assist in helping me do the SAS as I no longer have a fully equipped shop at my disposal.
In doing so, I have helped tweak some new products that are very close to release and also put a new steering system on the market for Stonecrusher Steering. I've had lots of fun working with the guys at Duff's and Anthony too. This is a hobby that I have had for 12 or so years and I love meeting all the different people at events and on the trails. I'll help anyone out I can and have thanked many for the healp and guidance they have given me.
I'm also a BUDGET wheeler--I spend my money on my boys (ages 5 & 2) they are my future. My whole rig, as it sits right now, has a grand total of $850 invested in it including purchase price. With my full width HP44 and 9 plus the 39.5 IROKS and 17" wheels I will still have less than $2,000 in it. I buy, sell, and trade around on parts getting and making deals along the way to get what I want for very cheap.
The TTB has been good to me. It has really suprised the shit outta me, I figured I'd been through a few sets of axles by now. To be honest though, I can build a SASd rig cheaper than the Duff lift woulda cost me. 2 sets of leaf springs, couple sticks of square tube, stick of round tube, and misc. bolts and stuff woulda cost me about $250 and I could put it all together in a weekend. The driveability would be no where near the Duff lift. I swear the Ex drove better after putting that lift on than any other rig I've ever driven. Now with the flexy EB coils and new steering, it's a true wheeler. I am very impressed with it every time I take it out.



Still, SAS was my original plan and that's what I'm gonna do. I have everything needed, just waiting on them to say the word.