Transmission spins while towing with transfer case in neutral

[Islandboy1220]

Is the dealer going to test it for you? I misunderstood your post apparently. Tow mode and neutral tow are 2 different things.

Yes, the dealer has tested it and they cannot do the extensive tranny work, so they are sending it to a dealer that can. The instructions say, and we see each time, messages that say Neutral Tow Leave In Neutral or Neutral Tow Enabled. And yes, tow mode is for towing a trailer (and I do that as well when towing a trailer).
Those things are not in question - what I am trying to figure out is why they said the tranny still spins with the transfer case in neutral (Neutral Tow). It simply makes no sense to me so I am hoping someone here understands how it works.

 

[Islandboy1220]

The service tech was mistaken or unfamiliar with the system

The rear drive shaft does spin the transfer case output shaft AND pump to keep it lubed and cool, but input shaft(transmission connection) would not be turning when transfer case is in Neutral
The front drive shaft would also be spinning and the chain drive, but it would also be lubed by the pump

If engine, and radio, is off, you can hear transfer case shift

It possible there was/is a transfer case problem, and electric shift motor did move to Neutral position, the sensors for that are IN the shift motor NOT in the transfer case, so transfer case was still connected to transmission.
So you saw the confirmation on the display but mechanically it was still engaged to transmission

Thanks. That is what I would have expected. It is going to another, supposedly more qualified dealer, so hopefully they can get it correct.

 

[RonD]

Thanks. That is what I would have expected. It is going to another, supposedly more qualified dealer, so hopefully they can get it correct.

Read this thread, seems to be an issue with this: https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/transmission-trashed-during-flat-towing.4618/

3 more of the same failures there, also mentions 1 or 2(a few) F150s that had the same issue when flat towing

I can't see this happening that much without a common under lying issue, because after all how many 2019/2020 Ranger 4x4s are being flat towed, out of all the 2019/2020 4x4 Rangers sold


Thought I would see if the Australian T6 Rangers had any issues like this, but they never had the 4x4 flat towing option as far as I could see
T6 Ranger is the same body style/platform as our 2019-2021 models here
But they DID/DO HAVE manual transmissions and manual transfer cases(a civilized society) so could do flat towing with manual transfer case which does have Neutral

 

[Curious Hound]

Those things are not in question - what I am trying to figure out is why they said the tranny still spins with the transfer case in neutral (Neutral Tow). It simply makes no sense to me so I am hoping someone here understands how it works.

As RonD said, it sounds like the service techs at the first dealer don't understand the system properly. I hope we didn't irritate you. These newer models are still very new to the North American market. By bringing this up here, you have helped educate us also. Thanks.

 

[RonD]

Fords as far back as 2001 had event data recorders, EDRs, and 2019 Ranger would for sure have it, BUT, I doubt it would show any info about this situation

 

[Islandboy1220]

I wonder what Tow Mode (TM) does to the t-case. If Islandboy did the procedure right and the transmission failed, then something is wrong with the truck and it will happen again.

Exactly. I suspect the transmission is a symptom, not the root of the problem. I think RonD hit the nail on the head.

 

[Islandboy1220]

As RonD said, it sounds like the service techs at the first dealer don't understand the system properly. I hope we didn't irritate you. These newer models are still very new to the North American market. By bringing this up here, you have helped educate us also. Thanks.

It takes a lot to irritate me, but I can be kind of direct. People here initially asked the questions I asked as soon as I had the problem. I knew I got the correct position indications when I connected it But I had to revisit it mentally. I queried my wife because she took it out of tow mode - she confirmed tranny was in neutral and the TC came out of neutral tow and that she used the instructions.

 

[Islandboy1220]

Tow mode is for towing stuff with the ranger, neutral tow is for when something is towing the ranger.

Im fairly sure the tow mode button doesn't actually do anything to the transfer case it just does what every other ford tow button does and turns off overdrive. The transfer case switch was probably just a convenient spot to put it.

Yeah, that terminology stuff. I meant neutral tow (transfer case in neutral).

 

[Islandboy1220]

Fords as far back as 2001 had event data recorders, EDRs, and 2019 Ranger would for sure have it, BUT, I doubt it would show any info about this situation

Actually, the service folks have several pages of error codes and the Ford app on my phone has a few of them. While they were working on it, the truck was sending me error codes. I doubt it goes as far as knowing the indication did one thing and the transfer case did another though.

 

[Dirtman]

You're gonna have to keep us posted with what the second dealer says. I tried to search for any TSB's about this and didn't come up with anything but it definitely sounds like there is an inherent problem with the system. Perhaps the transfer case is not actually moving to neutral even though the dash said it did, a programming error? No idea. This is all fairly new technology so its entirely possible there is a major issue that they have yet to fully understand since as Ron said, not alot of people are flat towing trucks so only a few people would ever experience the issue.

 

[RonD]

Yes, I would agree, the transmission burn out is a symptom not the problem

Wouldn't be too hard to add a monitor circuit on OSS(output shaft speed) sensor, its on transmission tail shaft
It generates its own AC voltage when shaft is spinning, so 0 volts in flat tow
So wouldn't need battery draining power to monitor, it would activate a circuit by Providing voltage only when shaft is spinning
And then have that activation trigger the Flashers, like lock/unlock does with fob
Most would notice that even in day time, but could add the horn honk as well, lol

 

[Islandboy1220]

Now this is getting confusing. Sounds like they should have just stuck a manual t-case in it. It shouldn’t be that complicated to drive or tow a Ranger.

It really is not that difficult, but you have to trust the indicator lights/display (maybe idiot lights). Using the Ford procedure, you cannot confirm the transfer case is in neutral except for the electronic display. A lot of the Jeeps are manual and the transmission goes in gear or park, so you will know by rolling forward. The RAM1500 is electronic, but the transmission goes in park, so a simple roll forward with the coach will also tell you very quickly if the TC is in neutral. GM I think is similar, but they require the battery to be disconnected.

 

[Islandboy1220]

Yes, I would agree, the transmission burn out is a symptom not the problem

Wouldn't be too hard to add a monitor circuit on OSS(output shaft speed) sensor, its on transmission tail shaft
It generates its own AC voltage when shaft is spinning, so 0 volts in flat tow
So wouldn't need battery draining power to monitor, it would activate a circuit by Providing voltage only when shaft is spinning
And then have that activation trigger the Flashers, like lock/unlock does with fob
Most would notice that even in day time, but could add the horn honk as well, lol

I am sure there are any number of solutions, but before I re-engineer this truck, I would simply change. I like my Ranger, but if I cannot reliably flat tow it, it is of marginal value to me.

 

[Islandboy1220]

You're gonna have to keep us posted with what the second dealer says. I tried to search for any TSB's about this and didn't come up with anything but it definitely sounds like there is an inherent problem with the system. Perhaps the transfer case is not actually moving to neutral even though the dash said it did, a programming error? No idea. This is all fairly new technology so its entirely possible there is a major issue that they have yet to fully understand since as Ron said, not alot of people are flat towing trucks so only a few people would ever experience the issue.

I will. It may take a week or two more, I am guessing.

 

[RonD]

You know, I would print off some of the Posts regarding this issue, so you have a copy and then drop it off to Ford Dealer with your Ranger
Even see if you can find some of the F150 flat tow failures mentioned

Ford is a big company and there are many many Ford service shops, and not sure they read all the Ranger forum posts, lol
So a shop may only ever see one of these types of failures

Since there is no TSB, Ford is still thinking this thing over, and a service tech may be looking at your problem as a one-off, not one of many
If a tech KNOWS there has been more than one flat tow failure, then its NOT a one-off, and that will help him/her ALOT to diagnose the source of the problem

And "one of many" takes user error off the table a bit, so tech can look elsewhere
(also takes YOU off the hook if push comes to shove on warranty issues )

Yes, you are doing legwork for Ford, lol, but wouldn't you feel more confident if they DID FIND the problem and didn't just replace transmission and transfer case, and "hope for the best"