Tractors

[rusty ol ranger]

Unless you are using a diesel to its full potential most or all of the time, it is not cost effective to own one vs a gasser. Initial cost, maintenance, repairs, fuel - all substantially higher. So you either NEED it and can justify the cost... or you WANT it... but that will never justify it.

I would much rather put up with my V10 super duty that costs me almost nothing than go broke feeding a diesel but that's just me.

I know a guy who spent 30k on a beat up high mileage duramax cause he "needed" it to tow his 4500lb camper. Said his 5.4 wasnt up to it.

 

[wildbill23c]

@wildbill23c and @rusty ol ranger I know you guys are talking about 20 to 30 year old trucks and I get that, but I can tell you that there is currently NO gasoline engine offered in any of the big three brands that can even come close to the towing capability of the diesels offered by those same brands. This has been the case since the mid to late 90's. Y'all are talking about towing 10k. My 6.7 F250 with 3.55 gears pulls right at 20k like it's almost not even there. That's trailer, Kubota 97-s, mulching head, bucket and grapple. A '92 F250 with a 460 might pull it, but it wouldn't like it. I really do not understand why some people are so dead set against diesels. I have a few friends that are the same way. I'll give you higher maintenance costs, but everything else is just better when you're talking about actually working the truck.

Dead set against a diesel? I never said that. You don't buy a diesel truck to tow something a few times a year. Now, if you are towing at max weight every day, yes a diesel makes sense....A brand new truck with the diesel engine box checked immediately adds $10k+ to your purchase price. You can buy a lot of gas for $10k, and not have the issues that today's diesel engines have with electronics and emissions disasters....and for me where my truck would be sitting most of the time, it makes absolutely no sense to own a diesel pickup, and yes a 92 F250 will tow your Kubota 97S just fine, I see people around here where I live doing it all the time....

I don't care to have an enormous truck payment either. If you are buying/leasing a truck for commercial/business use cool, you get the truck free because you write it off on your taxes, those of us who need a truck to do work occasionally a few times a year don't care for all that additional cost up front and in the future when things start failing and you mention Diesel, the dollars start multiplying real quick at the shop.

Like I said, if you tow at max weight every day of the year cool buy the diesel because it'll suit your needs, for those who take their campers to the mountains a couple times a year, no you don't need a diesel. My 88 F250 with the 460 wouldn't pass gas stations, but neither does your diesel....it just stops at the diesel pump instead. My grandparents pulled a 21 foot travel trailer all over the country with that F250 for 20+ years and never had any problems...about 4 years ago the truck went to my uncle as I didn't need it and he needed a heavier duty truck for the stuff he was doing...the neglect and abuse he's given that truck in the past few years I'm surprised at 740k+ miles that it still runs and drives. The 460 and the C6 apparently are pretty hard to kill LOL.

Would I buy a diesel? Maybe at some point if I started doing tractor work really frequently, but my tractor and your Skid Steer don't even weigh nearly the same, I think with everything including the tractor loaded on my trailer I'd be lucky to hit 6k. Huge difference pulling 6k VS 10K+ LOL....6k ain't anywhere close to needing a diesel, and honestly any gas truck built in the past few decades will pull your Skid Steer around, and it may not like it but it'll do it pretty well. Gearing is the main issue, many people buy trucks today to use as family sedans, they want them to ride like that too, and get the fuel economy of a family sedan...so suspension goes out the window and so does gear ratios, they get the lowest numerically available gear ratio to give them great fuel economy, but the poor guy that gets that truck to do truck things later on as a 2nd or 3rd owner quickly realizes that 3.55 gear ratio don't do crap for towing....luckily the 88 F250 I had came with the 4.30 axle ratio, it'll pull whatever you want, wherever you want it to go, just not past very many gas stations.

I only do a few tractor jobs a year, nothing anywhere close to paying to own a diesel pickup that would sit most of the year. I don't load my trucks down enough to justify the additional cost of a diesel in initial purchase price, nor repairs and maintenance. I'm sure if I ever advertised for tractor work, I'd probably be pretty busy given I have a sub-compact tractor and implements that fit into places the big guys can't get their tractors into, but my tractor was purchased as a private party sell, not for commercial use, so it would void the warranty by using it as a commercial use unit. If I ever did go into business doing tractor work, I'd have a larger heavier duty trailer, multiple machines, and an HD diesel pickup for sure, but for no more than I'm doing diesel don't make sense...especially when I'm not being paid for the jobs.

 

[G8orFord]

Because for the price difference between my gas F-150 and a comparable F-250 with a diesel I could buy a nice 100hp tractor with a decent road gear and a climate controlled cab that wouldn't need hauled...

Prices are a lot different where you live then. Assuming we're talking about near same year trucks. Unless 100hp tractor are a lot cheaper where you live. Diesels are more expensive, no question there, but I thought we were talking about towing. I also thought my caveat at the beginning of my post explained that.

If you have the need to use that engine’s capabilities on a regular basis, more power to you.
Most don’t and the premium price of the diesel engine is just too much for many to chew or justify. Many people don’t like making mortgage sized payments on a vehicle that might only see tow weights like that maybe once or twice a year.

I agree but a new F-150 ain't cheap either.

A 97 460 makes 410ftlb@2200rpm and a 97 PSD makes 415@2000. The 460 has 245hp@4100 and the diesel like 215@3500rpm (IIRC).

Unless youre at alititude the 460 is gonna yank just like the PSD and anniliate it in an empty 1/4 mi run. Plus you can rebuild a 460 for the cost of injectors on a PSD.

Once you get into the newer diesels yes the power is far and away better, but then you have DPF/DEF shit to deal with and we all know how great the 6.0 was.

Not to mention my fairly nice 460 truck blue books at around 7k. If it was a 7.3 good luck touching one for under 10 unless you want a rotted out turd beat by some kid with 300k on it.

Pretty much but that '97 Powerstroke will last at least twice a long as the 460 if properly maintained.

Unless you are using a diesel to its full potential most or all of the time, it is not cost effective to own one vs a gasser. Initial cost, maintenance, repairs, fuel - all substantially higher. So you either NEED it and can justify the cost... or you WANT it... but that will never justify it.

I would much rather put up with my V10 super duty that costs me almost nothing than go broke feeding a diesel but that's just me.

Agree on this as well, but what you save at the pump buying gas, you'll pretty much lose in the mpg difference.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Pretty much but that '97 Powerstroke will last at least twice a long as the 460 if properly maintained.


Agree on this as well, but what you save at the pump buying gas

1- What good is a 500,000 mi engine in a 300,000 mile truck? Plus like i said...you can rebuild a 460 cheaper then even a set of injectors for a 7.3. 460's have been known to go into the mid 200,000s before it is worth rebuilding. Yes PSDs will go further, but you could spend even 2500 bucks on a rebuilt motor (assuming the rest of the truck is worth it) and still be ahead. Most big block guys arnt running up to that mileage anyways

The MPG difference isnt *that* much. Every OBS 7.3 ive seen averages around 16 empty, 13-14 towing. A 460 will get 12 empty and 7-8 towing. With diesel 1.50+ more then gas, the more expensive maintence, and higher buy in the gas guys gonna be ahead.

Diesels have their place yes, but for the guy who only needs the capacity once in a while, and isnt towing long distances through the rockies, a 460 will do more then fine

 

[sgtsandman]

I agree but a new F-150 ain't cheap either.

Thus why I didn’t buy an F150. The 2019 Ranger payments are bad enough.

Now if I needed more truck, I would certainly have bought a bigger one. Match the vehicle to what you want/need to do. If I towed more often, I would have considered a bigger truck even though what I tow is certainly well within the 2019’s capability. I just don’t think the ecoboost engines are as durable for frequent towing as a turbocharged diesel is. Time may prove me wrong.

 

[Shran]

Agree on this as well, but what you save at the pump buying gas, you'll pretty much lose in the mpg difference.

I'm not sure, I feel like it's more of a wash. Especially with diesel at $6/gallon... DEF, oil changes that cost 3x what they do on a gasser.

Assuming we tow for 10,000 miles - let's figure gas costs $3.86, diesel is $5.41 (local prices right now.) My gasser V10 gets 8mpg loaded, figure a 6.7 diesel could do it for 11? That seems to be the average my 6.7 buddies do with a trailer.

Math on that says my fuel cost is $4825.... diesel comes in at $4918. Add about a hundred bucks for oil changes on my end. Diesel will burn what, fifty bucks +/- of DEF? $400 +/- oil changes (assuming every 5k on both trucks.)

There are a lot of other variables you could throw into the mix like variations in fuel cost, initial purchase of the truck, resale value, driving habits, terrain/elevation/speed limits etc... the one that really turns me off is the initial purchase cost, my V10 truck cost me $4000 and has needed basically nothing in the 5 years I've owned it. Very cheap to operate.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

So, I wasn’t really planning on working on the tractor yet, but I did end up picking up some new foam and outdoor fabric for the seat today… that’s as far as that went today but I think sometime soon I might have to make a day of messing with it. Apparently Napa stocks the oil filters…

 

[G8orFord]

I relent. You guys don't like diesels and/or don't need them. My comments were simply observations of the seemingly overwhelming negative opinion of diesel trucks. I could make more arguments on the positives, but it would be for naught. Minds are made up.

Facts:

• Diesels are more expensive purchase and maintain.
• Fuel is more expensive (though it shouldn't be)
• Older diesels are noisy and not very fast.
• Newer diesels are much quieter and pretty dang fast (without losing tow/haul capability)
• Diesels generally get better fuel mileage (often significantly)
• Diesels generally last longer without need for major repairs.

"Not so much" facts:

• A well tuned diesel since about 2000 will give you many more "smiles per gallon".
• You can't beat the feeling of the torque from a fully spooled turbo diesel.
• My 6.7 will drag any of your gasser pickups backwards without even a warmup.

LOL, just having some fun.

BTW, every vehicle I own is all-wheel/4-wheel drive and either turbo-charged or super-charged and the heaviest is "almost" the most fun to drive (hard to beat the X4 and the GV70) and it's definitely the easiest to drive.

 

[scotts90ranger]

My janky old F350 PSD with well over 360k on the chassis (zero rust, just needs some minor things to get better...) and over 200k on the engine runs fine... I just hauled at least 18k combined weight over the mountain pass getting 9-11mpg on $5.50 diesel (regular gas here is right at $5 annoyingly...) last weekend... it was almost snowy on the pass so I was able to gain 2mph and do 40 up the long steep spots! Oh boy does it need injectors and an intercooler...

The early 7.3L's were rated at I think 225hp at 3200 and like 440lbft at 1700rpm (mine barely makes boost at 1700 so not sure how that works... probably the worn out injectors)

I'm on the fence, back when I got it it was only $5k with a reconstructed title, would have been about $3k for a gasser I think, things now are dumb... I'd still prefer a diesel but I wouldn't go new but that's not how I roll anyway... doing all my own maintenance it's just parts prices that get silly, last I looked it was around $1600 for some modified stock injectors, $500 for a tuner and around $800 for a high pressure oil pump for my 7.3L then $300ish to get the tubing for an intercooler (that I already have)... I keep forgetting about a heavier duty clutch and a transmission rebuild to throw in there... If I was smart I would have looked for a early Duramax in ok shape when they were cheap, putting that $2500 into my 7.3L just gets me to stock '02ish Duramax power numbers... a 6.7L would be nice but I don't care about all the frilly things they all come with and the payments...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Prices are a lot different where you live then. Assuming we're talking about near same year trucks. Unless 100hp tractor are a lot cheaper where you live. Diesels are more expensive, no question there, but I thought we were talking about towing. I also thought my caveat at the beginning of my post explained that.

It helps being an enthusiast of a breed of tractor that is neither green or new... $5-10k all day.

Diesel pickups here go for stupid money too.

If I got a bigger tractor with a faster road gear and nice cab I wouldn't have to tow it.

Ironically my ideal "bigger" tractor I really want isn't much faster than what I have and had crappy aftermarket cabs.

My tractoring mainly takes place at home aside from vintage tractor shows/rides.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

• My 6.7 will drag any of your gasser pickups backwards without even a warmup.

Ill take that bet with the following stipulation...

Both trucks must be parked in the middle of a wide open corn field during the deep january freeze (-10 to -15 degrees with windchills double that) the night/day before competition and no extension cords will be present.

 

[bilbo]

Ill take that bet with the following stipulation...

Both trucks must be parked in the middle of a wide open corn field during the deep january freeze (-10 to -15 degrees with windchills double that) the night/day before competition and no extension cords will be present.

I was able to start my 94 IDI at -11. That's the coldest I ever had to try. The cord was a little too stretched out and it unplugged itself overnight. That's the coldest I have had to start it. Two cycles of the glow plugs and a lot of smoke but it started without any issue. I would imagine a PSD could do the same and better as long as it's mechanically sound.

I had always wanted to play with a diesel and picked this one up cheap, less than $2k. It belonged to a salesman that worked for a trailer company in SD, and it was used to haul a trailer to trade shows all over the states and Canada. It's 2wd but that's fine for me. The sound and smell brings me back to when I was a kid waiting for the school bus. The most complicated piece of electronics in the truck is the AM/FM radio. The rest of the drivetrain is dead simple, and I like that. No DEF, no DPF regen, no $400 injectors. Everything can be serviced with relatively simple tools.

I bought it with 280k and it rolled over 300 on the trip down to FL. I towed our enclosed trailer full of crap and it was fine as long as I didn't push the speed. It is NA, and elevation changes are sometimes an issue. Have to watch EGT. Monteagle grade was the only place it really struggled, was pretty hot when I got to the top, but I think I need a new radiator. The one in it is a used one from the JY and they weren't gentle taking it out so many of the fins are squashed.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I was able to start my 94 IDI at -11. That's the coldest I ever had to try. The cord was a little too stretched out and it unplugged itself overnight. That's the coldest I have had to start it. Two cycles of the glow plugs and a lot of smoke but it started without any issue. I would imagine a PSD could do the same and better as long as it's mechanically sound.

I had always wanted to play with a diesel and picked this one up cheap, less than $2k. It belonged to a salesman that worked for a trailer company in SD, and it was used to haul a trailer to trade shows all over the states and Canada. It's 2wd but that's fine for me. The sound and smell brings me back to when I was a kid waiting for the school bus. The most complicated piece of electronics in the truck is the AM/FM radio. The rest of the drivetrain is dead simple, and I like that. No DEF, no DPF regen, no $400 injectors. Everything can be serviced with relatively simple tools.

I bought it with 280k and it rolled over 300 on the trip down to FL. I towed our enclosed trailer full of crap and it was fine as long as I didn't push the speed. It is NA, and elevation changes are sometimes an issue. Have to watch EGT. Monteagle grade was the only place it really struggled, was pretty hot when I got to the top, but I think I need a new radiator. The one in it is a used one from the JY and they weren't gentle taking it out so many of the fins are squashed.

For the record i actually like the old 6.9/7.3 IDI's for the reasons you stated.

-11 is pretty impressive though. I knew a guy had an 85 6.9 and it was good to about 15*, my other buddy with a 6.2 had to cross his fingers at 30* lol.

I dont hate diesels, not at all. Just think they have a place. The IDI's i feel a bit different about because they are cheap and simple to repair...and sound bad ass under a load.

 

[superj]

i would love a diesel but have no need for it. i wouldn't want a new one with def and all that junk, an older 90s would be fine. just to have something to play with is really what it would be because 12mpg would annoy the crap out of me empty.

 

[Curious Hound]

i would love a diesel but have no need for it. i wouldn't want a new one with def and all that junk, an older 90s would be fine. just to have something to play with is really what it would be because 12mpg would annoy the crap out of me empty.

My 1990 F350 used to get 17mpg with the N/A 7.3l diesel and 5spd manual. Wish I had that truck now.