TFI ---> EDIS conversion?

[holyford86]

this is purely theoretical in nature, I want to see what everyone thinks of this. I was looking at wiring diagrams today and discovered that the 4.0 edis module connects to the eec using the same number of wires connecting to the same pins as the tfi ignition system, I thought that was interesting. Also taking the raised deck height of the 4.0 into account I know that the dist/sensor shafts are of different lengths. would it be possible to use the same pickup as the tfi ignition possibly with some modification to the PIP to run the edis module? If it turns out that the setups are that similar I would possibly contemplate trying this out. Discuss...

 

[Psychopete]

this is purely theoretical in nature, I want to see what everyone thinks of this. I was looking at wiring diagrams today and discovered that the 4.0 edis module connects to the eec using the same number of wires connecting to the same pins as the tfi ignition system, I thought that was interesting. Also taking the raised deck height of the 4.0 into account I know that the dist/sensor shafts are of different lengths. would it be possible to use the same pickup as the tfi ignition possibly with some modification to the PIP to run the edis module? If it turns out that the setups are that similar I would possibly contemplate trying this out. Discuss...

You've got me thinking about this, but I don't know enough about DIS. One thing that comes to mind about using the DIS system on a bank fire system is if the DIS system uses a signature PIP signal? The signature PIP signal is slightly different so that the computer knows where #1 is. As far as their output, I am not sure, but I do have an article that goes somewhat in-depth about the TFI-IV system and what to expect from the CMP. How does the EDIS module control the coils?

Pete

 

[holyford86]

it looks to me that the EDIS is controlled by a variable reluctance sensor (hall effect sensor?). I am working off of crappy wiring diagrams but I will tell you what I know. both systems connect to the computer through the same pins: 4,16,36, and 56. the edis controller runs three seperate coils inside the coilpack, so there are three banks I'm guessing. I don't know if the valve/cam timing is different to allow for the seemingly slight difference in spark timing. the EDIS module has 12 pins (i believe) but i havent looked at one recently. one is for shielding (ground?) 3 go to the coils, 2 go to the variable reluctance sensor, 4 go to the EEC, and one is a ground. one of them is unaccounted for right now if it even exists... If I have time tomorrow I will look for some better wiring diagrams at work

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd pick up this older one as it's what I'm planning to do --> go distributor-less on a 2.9 by running EDIS and a 4L OHV EEC-IV PCM from a '1992 Ranger. In many ways this is like doing a 4L swap, but I'm just using the electronics from the 4L on the 2.9. Given that the 4L is just a bored and stroked 2.9, I expect ignition maps to be very similar. Since the 4L is MAF vs. the SD on the 2.9, fueling should be fine given that air-volume will be measured rather than calculated.

I initially thought I'd swap in the whole 4L harness, but given how many pins are the same, it's really much easier to just use the existing harness and add/delete/cut/splice as needed. I'll even go the extra measure of creating conversion pigtails where I can so that I cut as little as possible. This way too, if something unexpected crops up, I can back-peddle and easily return to what I had.

Here's the pieces I've acquired:
Oil drive "dummy" plug (replaces distributor)
Original type crank V-pulley with 36-1 trigger wheel installed with missing tooth set at 0 degrees
EDIS Crank pick-up & pig-tail (2000-04 Focus w/ SPI engine)
Custom crank pick-up bracket that locates pick-up point 60 degrees BTDC
EDIS6 Module & harness pig-tail
MAF sensor & harness pig-tail from '92 Ranger
EEC-IV PCM X2T2 & harness from 4L '92 Ranger (Also have one from a '91 MT Explorer)
6-cyl Coil-pack w/ bracket and pig-tail
Ignition leads for above
18 pph EV6 fuel injectors (harness already modified for the EV6 injectors I'm currently running)

Anyone see any potential issues I'm not seeing?

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Look up some of @PetroleumJunkie412 postings. Or search for it. He had a massive thread on this very thing.

 

[bobbywalter]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd pick up this older one as it's what I'm planning to do --> go distributor-less on a 2.9 by running EDIS and a 4L OHV EEC-IV PCM from a '1992 Ranger. In many ways this is like doing a 4L swap, but I'm just using the electronics from the 4L on the 2.9. Given that the 4L is just a bored and stroked 2.9, I expect ignition maps to be very similar. Since the 4L is MAF vs. the SD on the 2.9, fueling should be fine given that air-volume will be measured rather than calculated.

I initially thought I'd swap in the whole 4L harness, but given how many pins are the same, it's really much easier to just use the existing harness and add/delete/cut/splice as needed. I'll even go the extra measure of creating conversion pigtails where I can so that I cut as little as possible. This way too, if something unexpected crops up, I can back-peddle and easily return to what I had.

Here's the pieces I've acquired:
Oil drive "dummy" plug (replaces distributor)
Original type crank V-pulley with 36-1 trigger wheel installed with missing tooth set at 0 degrees
EDIS Crank pick-up & pig-tail (2000-04 Focus w/ SPI engine)
Custom crank pick-up bracket that locates pick-up point 60 degrees BTDC
EDIS6 Module & harness pig-tail
MAF sensor & harness pig-tail from '92 Ranger
EEC-IV PCM X2T2 & harness from 4L '92 Ranger (Also have one from a '91 MT Explorer)
6-cyl Coil-pack w/ bracket and pig-tail
Ignition leads for above
18 pph EV6 fuel injectors (harness already modified for the EV6 injectors I'm currently running)

Anyone see any potential issues I'm not seeing?

running the early style with no cam sensor i would leave the distributor in place so your options are simpler later.

i suggest to keep the 2.9 injectors...and make the adapter to incorporate the ignition setup from the 4.0...


tuning this vintage is a pia..

and for relatives.....the timing curves are totally different. the 4.0 is a low rpm torque engine.....the 2.9 is a higher rpm engine.


the microsquirt is worth it to tune these.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

running the early style with no cam sensor i would leave the distributor in place so your options are simpler later.

Good point. I can always go back later and swap the "dummy plug" in once it's running to my satisfaction. The only catch might be if I want to use that space to mount the coil pack. Not a big deal either way, but anything that makes it easier to punt and return to original is a good idea.

i suggest to keep the 2.9 injectors...and make the adapter to incorporate the ignition setup from the 4.0...

Since my plan, at least initially, is to use a stock 4.0 PCM, I need to use ~18 PPH injectors.

the timing curves are totally different. the 4.0 is a low rpm torque engine.....the 2.9 is a higher rpm engine.

Are the actual factory timing maps available anywhere? Unlike the factory, my mount for the pick-up will have some adjustability, so I won't be hard-set at 10' BTDC. I realize that's a rather limited way of "tuning", but at least it's something.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Look up some of @PetroleumJunkie412 postings. Or search for it. He had a massive thread on this very thing.

I presume you're talking about this thread, yes?

TFI to EDIS Thought Experiment

Maybe easy on the 2.9 jokes on this one... Haven't been able to find any good info on a Cologne TFI to EDIS conversion out there, and would like to have a decent record of this if it works out. ?? So I've been kicking around switching from the TFI system to the later EDIS with crank and cam...

www.therangerstation.com

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I presume you're talking about this thread, yes?

TFI to EDIS Thought Experiment

Maybe easy on the 2.9 jokes on this one... Haven't been able to find any good info on a Cologne TFI to EDIS conversion out there, and would like to have a decent record of this if it works out. ?? So I've been kicking around switching from the TFI system to the later EDIS with crank and cam...

www.therangerstation.com

Yep thats the one

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I'm pretty far along in getting this project done - you can read about it here if you'd like (feel free to jump ahead to page 6 or so for the hands-on details)...
https://forum.merkurclub.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42772

Here's where I'm currently at, running the Ranger 4.0 PCM on the Merkur Scorpio w/ 2.9.... I'm getting spark, fuel pressure, but no injector pulsing. Injectors are getting 12V+, but not the pulsing to Gnd as controlled by the PCM. The only pin in the harness I moved was pin 46 to pin location 44. The Ranger schematic indicates pin 44 is Signal Return (Gnd). Could this be a typo and it's actually pin 46? I also have a 1994 Explorer schematic here, and it's indicating pin 46 as Signal Return.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Just thought I'd update this thread. I've had this running for a couple months and finally got all the major hurdles cleared. The EEC-IV 4.0 OHV PCM's work just fine on the 2.9. I've got my base timing set at 13 degrees and I've heard zero evidence of pinging using either the Explorer or Ranger 5-speed PCM's. This swap should be easier on a Ranger than the Scorpio I did it on, but only just a couple steps skipped.

 

[bobbywalter]

excellent. do you have widebands for study?

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

excellent. do you have widebands for study?

I do not. I've got a basic NB A/F gauge, and that's functioning as it should.

Overall drive-ability is improved and my finely-tuned butt-dyno tells me I've got a small blip up in power.

 

[bobbywalter]

are you going to get one or just run it? they are very nice to have...and not horrible in price of course as long as it isnt washing the oil out with fuel in 1000 miles and is NA.... probably going to be just fine

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

No plans at all to get one. It goes closed-loop very nicely so I'm not at all concerned that it's over-fueling. That's the beauty of MAF - it measures the air mass directly and provides fueling accordingly.