Start with a Mazda 2.5 L or Duratec for Custom Build Need Advise Please

[pjtoledo]

my 2005 2.3 easily pulled to just over 6K when it was new. that's in standard Ranger trim, NA and whatever cam the trucks have.

its currently at 333,500 miles. feeling old, but still running.

speaking of cams, the 2.3 (in a Ranger) has a fixed intake cam with only 1 sensing tab.
the Fusion 2.5 has a variable cam with several sensing tabs,. the variable cam timing is handled by the intake cam gear assembly.

 

[pjtoledo]

quick search turned up Mazadaspeedstore.com for some go-fast (and spend money) goodies

should be some Fusion forums out there too.

 

[adsm08]

that "might" be related to that 19 lb balancer assembly that runs off a huge gear on the crankshaft.

just guess'in

So many fancy words like "might" and "19 lb balancer" and "off".

I honestly am not a fan of the 2.5, it is too big for it's own good, usually develops rod knock, and the 2wd versions had another 10lb damper hanging off the block and still had poor NVH. But is the goal is just power it is still the best starting point because it has the best numbers stock.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

@pjtoledo
The SHO I have is a 92 manual tranny, so I think it is a 3.0? It runs great and drives down the road just fine. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE those motors!!! I wanted to put that in this BugEye so bad but it just wouldn't be a well balanced track car when done. So I would sell it if it worked out.
I live in Northern California.

@adsm08
Power is deffinatly important to me, but more then that is useable power and sustainable power. A broader, smoother powerband is way more important then snappy peak power. Like I said, this is going to be a track day car mostly. If the difference is 10 hp less but it is more efficient and the engine lives a lot longer then I would much rather have a 2.3ltr. Do you believe this to be the case between the 2.3 and 2.5?
Also, I will do some research, but do you know if the Miata ever come with a Duratec based engine or was that a different platform? Just curious.

Thanks again ya'll for the help and patiance with all my dumb questions.

 

[pjtoledo]

So many fancy words like "might" and "19 lb balancer" and "off".

I honestly am not a fan of the 2.5, it is too big for it's own good, usually develops rod knock, and the 2wd versions had another 10lb damper hanging off the block and still had poor NVH. But is the goal is just power it is still the best starting point because it has the best numbers stock.

sorry, I haven't had any M&Ms yet today.


on the power numbers, I'm a bit worried what will happen to proposed power levels of the variable cam timing 2.5 when it's determined to be more feasible to run it in a 2.3 configuration with the VCT cam & gear combination replaced with a standard 2.3 gear and cam. 2.3 injectors too, they reportedly are a better match for the (my) stock PCM.

whaddaya think?

 

[pjtoledo]

@pjtoledo
The SHO I have is a 92 manual tranny, so I think it is a 3.0? It runs great and drives down the road just fine. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE those motors!!! I wanted to put that in this BugEye so bad but it just wouldn't be a well balanced track car when done. So I would sell it if it worked out.
I live in Northern California.

@adsm08
Power is deffinatly important to me, but more then that is useable power and sustainable power. A broader, smoother powerband is way more important then snappy peak power. Like I said, this is going to be a track day car mostly. If the difference is 10 hp less but it is more efficient and the engine lives a lot longer then I would much rather have a 2.3ltr. Do you believe this to be the case between the 2.3 and 2.5?
Also, I will do some research, but do you know if the Miata ever come with a Duratec based engine or was that a different platform? Just curious.

Thanks again ya'll for the help and patiance with all my dumb questions.

that swap was done to a Healy (not sure what model) over 20 years ago. I have the Goody Book article somewhere.
for its age the SHO is a great motor, but by todays standards its HEAVY and just mediocre on power. a lot has happened since 1989.
it would be interesting to see a 2.3 turbo in an early SHO, 80 more HP and 200 lbs less weight up front.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

@pjtoledo
Yea, the SHO is a has been by todays standards. My love affair with that motor is purely nastalgia reasons only. It is basically the prototype for the V6 Duratec right?
I have seen that Healey 3000 article too and it is AWESOME! My BugEye(also Healey) is way tiny compared to a 3000 so I think in the interest of handling and not having to sit Indian style an I4 is a must...along with being a Ford.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

Right now the BuvEye Sprite weighs a whopping 1200lbs ast Iron engine and tranny and all. Said engine makes a staggering 40hp and is considered quit sporty and fun to drive by vintage racers! Lmao!! I have slightly different standards!

 

[stmitch]

If it were me, I'd start with a Ranger 2.3. Because it's the least complex Duratec, and it's already designed for a longitudinal application.

Any of the FWD Duratecs will have balance shafts to quell some NVH. That's fine, but id adds 19lbs to the engine, and complexity that doesn't need to be there. Ranger 2.3s didn't have them, so it saves you the hassle of having to delete what you wouldn't want anyway. Colin Chapman would approve.

It also skips the Variable Valve Timing that most other Duratecs had. This makes cam swaps for more power cheaper and easier, and again, less complexity is a good thing in a flyweight sports car.

Also I think a lot of high hp MazdaSpeed guys have switched to Ranger blocks that they claim are stronger, or more stable at high rpms or something. It's been a long time since I looked into it. Sorry that it's not more help.

If hood clearance is a concern with the Ranger's intake manifold, an NC Miata intake should work very nicely in it's place, and it won't be any taller than the top of the engine.

Finally, I'm pretty sure the front cover and accessory locations are different from FWD applications, and you may find that advantageous for your setup. Or maybe not, it just depends I guess, but it seems like you'd have a better chance of having fewer issues by starting with a longitudinal engine from the get go.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

@stmitch
Thanks for all the info. I think your right on all accounts. The only reason I wanted to start with the Mazda FWD unit was I was under the impression the had forged crank and rods. I thought I read that somewhere. Now I'm not finding that as I get closer to purchasing an engine, or at least nobody that can confirm it. 2.5 vs 2.5 isn't much of a differemce really and as far as I can tell it's in the rids ot bore or stroke so if I ever get into it I'll change them.
So I'm going out loomking for motors today.
Anybody else having a hard time getting to Quads4rods websight?

 

[BlackBII]

From here
https://massivespeedforums.com/so-you-want-to-swap-a-2-5-duratec-i4-in-eh-2-5-rec-t17130144.html

Some have said the OE 2.5 crank is forged. Its almost impossible to confirm or deny that. My gut tells me its cast though, from the casting lines sharper appearance on the Ford unit, its not. That and the Mazda MZR 2.5 (literature points ot it more possibly than its Ford counterpart being forged) crank is nearly 3 times the cost. So that one probably IS forged. If your serious, we can key one for you, cost is approx $1000. That said, these cranks and the mains that hold them, are very robust. Probably not super necessary.

Are you planning on running any boost down the road? Apart from keying the crank, I don't think you are going to need to worry much about the crank at all while trying to reach 300hp.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

@BlackBll
I'm not sure about boost down the road. It depends if this car gets boring ir not. My thought wasbif I'm starting from scratch and one has forged and the other doesn't, couldn't hurt to start with the better internals, but it sounds like it's a bit more complicated then that. My number of 300hp just seemed lime it might not be to hard to get out of a NA Duratec and that would keep things simple, reliable and the car only weighs 1200lbs, so should be fun....for now.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

Ok, got the engine sorted out. It is a 2.5 out of a Fusion. I will pick it up this weekend. I have decided to use a different tranny then the T5 I was planning on running. It has the wrong gearing and bell pattern anyway.
So now my question is, what is the best Manuel transmission for this application? I know of the M50D and it is actually geared pretty good out of the Ranger from what I have read, but are they strong? Are there any others with the same bell pattern? Maybe a Miata or something? Thank you in advance.

 

[pjtoledo]

Mustang 2.3 turbo has a 6speed manual, it holds up to 300hp from the factory.

 

[Cursed Iron Fist]

The newer Mustang 6 speeds are still a little to rich for my blood. The same wrecking yard that I'm getting the engine from says he has a good
M50D-1 out of a Ranger that he will trade me straight across for my T5, I just don't know much about that transmission or the gearing. I thought I would ask here if a Miata 5 or 6 speed might be a better option or should I stick with my T5 and buy the adapter? I havn't found a Miata tranny of any kind near me for sale and I have no idea what they usually cost at a yard. The shifter is sure in a great spot in the Ranger M50D! Any more ideas?