Some clutch help...please

[pcollins]

ok, so i'm in a bit of a bind here. lets start at the beginning to get a full picture:

Last year about this time, before i bought my ranger (1997 4.0 V6, 5 speed) we changed the 5th/Reverse gear at the shop. upon putting it back together and bleeding it, it got chocked full of air (yea, we were dumb, forgot to fill the resevoir) so we tried to bleed the air out of the system, but no success. so we figured bad slave cylinder. Got in there, replaced it, bled the living shit out of it, and it finally worked right. So now this is a year later, and i'm having some issues.

When the engine and tranny get up to full operating temp, the gears will not engage from a stop. 1st is impossible and reverse will grind. It ONLY does this at full Op temp. I'm thinking bad pressure plate springs, because that assembly wasn't changed when we had the tranny out, and the heat could screw with them. But could another option be the master cylinder (due to it being full of air at one point)? I want to say no to the master cylinder because heat expands brake fluid, and if it isn't disengaging at full op temp, that doesn't make sense. because the fluid would expand and disengage the clutch even more, No? I need some opinions on this...i have a clutch kit on the way, but i'm thinking about changing the master cylinder first, but i really don't want to because if that doesn't fix it, i'm out $100. There are no leaks in the Hydro system. i never lose any fluid. As far as i know these clutches are auto adjusting.

Thanks Guys.

Post script: been doing some research before i posted. i guess these master cylinders are impossible to bleed while in the truck. you guys reccomend a bench bleed?

 

[Earl43P]

I had a 93 act like that.
I could drive 1/2 mile then it wouldn't go into any gear with the engine running.
Turned out to be a bad slave cylinder, but the tranny was also dry inside, as in a splooge of goo came out of the drain plug and about 1/4 cup of "fluid".

Have you seen this? http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70338&highlight=bleed

Sounds easier than any other method.

 

[pcollins]

well i went under it today only to find that i cant bleed the master cylinder thanks to my dumbass shop teacher breaking the quick connect coupling... :/ i could take it to the lift at the farm, put it up and fight with it, but i'm just not feeling like it. its not leaking or anything, but the little spring loaded thing that is supposed to slide forward and free it, isn't there. its gone. so i have to fight with a hose clamp (fitting it into the recess) and release all the tabs. I guess i can just live with it the way it is until the friction disc goes out...in about another 40,000 probly.

 

[piotrsko]

I have a buck that says the hose clamp is leaking air back into the system.....

I'd try to bleed it and see if it gets better.

you can take it off the firewall and hand bleed it there without disconnecting it from the slave, and I have heard of success raising the rear up until the front bumper touches the ground also.

 

[pcollins]

I have a buck that says the hose clamp is leaking air back into the system.....

I'd try to bleed it and see if it gets better.

you can take it off the firewall and hand bleed it there without disconnecting it from the slave, and I have heard of success raising the rear up until the front bumper touches the ground also.

hmmm. that sounds simpler than removing it, although i may do that and replace it tomorrow, cause its in rough shape anyways. how would i go about hand bleeding it?

 

[piotrsko]

open the slave bleed screw about 1/2 a turn and put some tubing over it like you are one man brake bleeding, stick the other end in a jar that has some fluid in it..
pull the pin off the clutch pedal, gently remove the master cyl push rod from the pedal, go around to the fire wall and pull the 2 master cyl bolts (10mm?).

Remove the reservoir from the firewall (stoopid things have air holes all over so they tend to pee fluid). pull out the master cyl from the firewall, get a way to hold the reservoir up higher than the master cyl, and point the pushrod end of the master down as far as you can. give it a couple of pumps watching the reservoir level. Mine would "SPLURK" when air was coming out, it got silent when it was bled out. yours may vary. probably 2 refills on the reservoir ought to do it. close the bleeder on the slave, put it all back together. the whole process is easier if the master is disconnected, and out of the truck, but sometimes you gotta do......

 

[pcollins]

i actually tried that on monday...my master cylinder isn't bolted on most unfortunately. its attached on the inside of the truck by a 45degree turn lock. long story short, i fought with it for a while on monday, gave up on getting it completely out of the truck, and just pumped it where i had it. i would really like to bench bleed it, so i may have to take the whole inner fender off one day just to get the cylider out.

The clutch feels better, but there is still some air...its acting better than it was tho. i'm gonna try something different with my buddy. have him hold the pedal halfway down, open the screw, then slam the pedal to the floor, close the valve, repeat. i'm hoping the fluid will move in the system so fast it takes the trapped air with it.

 

[Eaglefixer]

you may want to look at the clutch pedal bracket. I had a 96 Ranger that i changed the clutch,pressure plate and slave and master cylinder several times then i found the the bracket elongated. check this link out and check out pic's http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66783

 

[pcollins]

i will have to take a look. nothing seems loose tho and i don't hear any noises.

 

[pcollins]

checked it out, i don't have an elongated bracket. its all good up there and the bushings are still in place.