rotory engine in ranger

[black_demon69]

anyone ever thought about adapting one of these to a ranger?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine

just pondering but have no actual plans to do so just curious about what you all think about feasibility and so on..

might be fun to discuss

 

[tmcalavy]

Might be fun if my 3.0 wasn't already a Wanker.

 

[black_demon69]

i know that a rotary can turn some serious rpms.


rotary in a ranger the easy way just drop a ranger body on top of a mazda rx8..........

 

[RonD]

The Rotary engines demise was emission standards and fuel prices, never performance.
Problem was that they had poor MPG to start with and to make them meet emissions standards the MPG would have been abysmal.

I believe a company in Australia still builds them and races them.

I think a SHO engine would be a better choice but nothing wrong with a rotary build, you could even get a new rotary engine vs trying to find parts for an old one.

An Electric motor is a "rotary" engine, ever look at the Tesla's numbers, 420 HP, 450FT/LB torque, now that would be a nice build as well
No transmission needed, wonder how you would bolt that up to a transfer case.............

 

[SenorNoob]

Is it just me or is a rotary engine more or less a 2-stroke?

 

[tmcalavy]

The late, great folk singer Pete Seeger had someone drop an electric motor/drive into a small pickup for him, looked sweet...can't remember if it was a ranger though.

 

[bobbywalter]

hell they ran them all the way to 2011 so they are around, and there has been a few key breakthroughs for emissions and economy since then.


cant see using them in a big 4x4 application though....maybe a low race truck.




for electric, hub-motors are the only way to go.

 

[black_demon69]

hell they ran them all the way to 2011 so they are around, and there has been a few key breakthroughs for emissions and economy since then.


cant see using them in a big 4x4 application though....maybe a low race truck.




for electric, hub-motors are the only way to go.

race truck is exactly what i was thinking

 

[RonD]

Is it just me or is a rotary engine more or less a 2-stroke?

It's just you

Rotary is a 4 "stroke" engine but without the stroke, rotor has separate intake, compression, power and exhaust positions.
As the rotor turns the same place in the block would be the intake "section" each time, and the compression section and the power section and then exhaust section, so the block had 4 sections that the rotor would spin through.
One of the benefits and drawbacks is that the block would have a cold side, intake/compression and a hot side, power/exhaust.
Piston engines use the same space in the block/head for these 4 "strokes", so has an stable average temperature inside the cylinder.

Because the rotary engine had a cold side, and because of the shape of the combustion chamber, it could run lower octane fuel and even hydrogen gas without pre-ignition issues.
Drawback was that because of the thermal differences in the block the metallurgy was a challenge, even with a water jacket to equalize temps it was still a challenge.

The shape of the combustion chamber also made it less efficient than a piston engine, so MPG was lower for the same power output, this meant more unburned hydro-carbons in the exhaust, a no-no for emission, but it burned cooler so had lower NOx level.
The hydro-carbon issue was addressed by running engine rich enough to support a reburn in a thermal reactor inside exhaust manifold, similar to Cat converter but much less expensive.
Unfortunately this lowered the MPG even more.

Rotary had it's Pluses, but more Minuses in the consumer market so the volume of production cars sold couldn't support the cost of building them.

 

[RonD]

Electric "engine" has two draw backs, range is the first, but I bet 90% of the drivers in North America drive less than 250 miles each day, so IMO that's just a "mind set" people should get over.
Second issue is the battery pack replacement, which is a large cost.
Tesla estimates battery pack replacement in 8-10 years, lets say 8 years, you can pre-pay for next generation battery pack when you buy a Tesla, $12,000
Current cost is $25,000.

Recharge cost based on residential electric kwh in the US comes out at $.03-.$05 per mile
Gasoline(regular) runs $3.50-$4.00/gallon, at 20MPG that runs $.17-$.20 per mile

If you drive 12,000miles a year at $.17/mile on gas that's $2,040 per year, on electricity at $.03/mile that's $360, so you save $1,680 a year when using electricity.
In 8 years that's $13,440 saved
But gas engines also need oil changes, 4 each year if you stick with the 12,000 miles.
Say $25 each, so $100 a year, another $800 saved

And if you own a gas engine for 8 years......well with that many moving parts you will have some broken stuff, also air cleaners, fuel filters, coolant changes, ect......
Say another $700 over 8 years, that's cheap, lol

Tires, brakes, and all the little stuff that falls off in your hand will be the same on both

So $13,440 + $1,500 = $14,940 saved in 8 years

Looks like a wash to me, battery pack is just paid all at once so seems like a big downside, but really isn't.
(And IMO, gas prices will go up much faster than electricity prices, so above is very conservative.)

But what Tesla(pre-sale battery price) and other electric car makers are counting on, is that the battery packs will be getting much cheaper with more scale, and they seem to be right.
Battery packs like those used in vehicles are dropping 10% a year, a little more in some years.
So in 8 years with a 10% a year drop, the now $25,000 battery pack would be $10,700.
So you would be $4,200 richer driving an electric, lol.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Electric "engine" has two draw backs, range is the first, but I bet 90% of the drivers in North America drive less than 250 miles each day, so IMO that's just a "mind set" people should get over.

Not every day... but I have no interest in being hobbled by it. It would suck for vacation or weekend trip and you would either have to keep a gas burner around, borrow a gas burner because your stupid expensive car can't do it or fly... and flying is really cheap.

My F-150 doesn't get great milage but it will put down 300 miles easily and in 10 minutes plus a potty break it is ready to do the same over again. A 3 hour one way trip to Kansas City or a 2 hour one way trip to Lincoln can and does happen both ways in one day.

They are fine for people that never get out of the city but a sad joke for anyone that needs a car with legs to get anywhere.

 

[exbass94]

Seems kinda stupid to spend thousands extra each year for a gas vehicle just in case you MIGHT take a long trip a couple times per year. For those rare occasions, just rent a car. You'd still be way ahead. To each his own...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Seems kinda stupid to spend thousands extra each year for a gas vehicle just in case you MIGHT take a long trip a couple times per year. For those rare occasions, just rent a car. You'd still be way ahead. To each his own...

GF lives in Lincoln...

I think it would be pretty stupid to spend that kind of money on a car (for me) when I can't really go anywhere with it. Distance is what concerns me for reliablity, For bouncing 6 miles to work and back a $1000 POS could do it regularly.

 

[Snoranger]

Not every day... but I have no interest in being hobbled by it. It would suck for vacation or weekend trip and you would either have to keep a gas burner around.

I already have 6.... What's one more car?!?

 

[RonD]

Not every day... but I have no interest in being hobbled by it. It would suck for vacation or weekend trip and you would either have to keep a gas burner around, borrow a gas burner because your stupid expensive car can't do it or fly... and flying is really cheap.

My F-150 doesn't get great milage but it will put down 300 miles easily and in 10 minutes plus a potty break it is ready to do the same over again. A 3 hour one way trip to Kansas City or a 2 hour one way trip to Lincoln can and does happen both ways in one day.

They are fine for people that never get out of the city but a sad joke for anyone that needs a car with legs to get anywhere.

Not that this isn't a valid argument, it is, when I was younger and we took the kids on "station wagon vacations"(pre-minivans, lol) an electric vehicle wouldn't make any sense at all.
But I also rented an "RV" a few times, didn't make sense to buy one for the 3 times in 20 years I used one.

It really comes down to what you need vs. gas or electric.

So the same argument could be used in reverse.
If you commute to work 5 days a week for 50 weeks(2 week vacation) a year, an F-150 would cost a fair bit more than an electric.
And more than cover the cost of renting a car/van for those two week "station wagon vacations" and quite a few weekend side trips, rental cars are cheap now, and you aren't putting the extra miles on your DD.

I have a few friends that rent cars to do high mile trips even through they have gas cars/trucks, either because they want a small car for better MPG on the long trip or they want larger car to get more people in, in either case they also save rolling up the miles on their DD.

My point was more that electric is starting to make economical sense with the higher gas prices and better electric car performance, i.e. it is not just "tree hugger", "save the planet" BS any more, lol.