Recommend me a dirtbike

[det107]

The thing I don't like about 2 strokes is the mixing the gas, I know it sounds lazy, but I just don't like doing it. I also don't like 2 strokes because they aren't really that good for the trails since they like higher rpm.

When I was a kid, the 2 strokes:
The racing bikes needed pre-mix
Trail bikes had 2 separate fill ups

To ride a motocross bike on trails takes sophisticated skill(s) to maneuver. It can be dangerous at times but the thrill of coordinating narrow ledges, space between trees & hightailing it out fast enough to evade the fuzz.

Ask Copperhead for a recommendation-

 

[nb11]

id vote any bike made by honda. im not sure what these guys do over there, but my 2007 CBR600RR is the best built piece of machinery ive seen. everything honda does to their bikes is thought out and has a purpose. they are always the leader in inovation, and i wont ride anything else. Ive seen the suzuki and kawi's along with many others. nothing ever compares. its your choice though. a 250 would get you around just fine for a 4 stroke. hell, my 600 does 120 in first gear, i dont think you need that on a trail! lol

Apples to oranges. Honda makes tough stuff, but look at the reviews and shootouts of the latest Honda mx bikes. In 2009, they started taking a plunge and have been close to the bottom ever since, just for bad handling/suspension characteristics. I'm a suzuki guy, and their mx bikes went from last to first in 2011. However, on the sport bikes, suzuki went from dominating the field to just "ok," and most bikes you see out there on the grid today are Hondas.

to the OP: do you want to ride track or trails more? With an mx bike you can do both, with a trails bike, you can only do one.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

From what I understand the OP is looking to get into the sport more. I wouldn't limit my choice of rides to one brand. What ever you get a deal on I'd go for. Any of the 450 bikes would suit you well I think. But the 4 stroke vs 2 stroke debate is mute. You can thank Honda for promoting 4 strokes and bashing 2 strokes. They made the claim that 4 strokes have a wider powerband and easier for the average joe to ride and they would be maintenance free instead of a high spinning 2 stroke. But, if you look at today's high performance engines the performance built 2 strokes are still miles ahead of their same sized 4 stroke engines. What once was a torquey low-rpm maintenance free 4 stroke is now a complex high revving expensive time bomb. As the horsepower of a 4 stroke goes up, the powerband gets narrower (just like the 2 strokes they replace). I'm in the ATV racing scene which uses the same technology. The cost to rebuild a 450cc 4 stroke when it lets loose is 3-4 times greater than a 2 stroke when it lets go. The aftermarket support (CP industries) for 2 strokes is gaining ground. I built a 421cc yamaha banshee with CPinc cub cylinder with lower port timings. This engine produces 89 horsepower to the wheels, while maintaining a torque curve from 5300rpm to 11000rpm. I'd like to see a 450cc 4 stroke do that.

My point is, if we are talking about racing then I wouldn't consider a heavier underpowered 4 stroke. But if the guy wants to hit the trails and play around on some "C" class tracks and races then pick up whatever 450cc mx bike is cheapest.

 

[03ranger30]

Apples to oranges. Honda makes tough stuff, but look at the reviews and shootouts of the latest Honda mx bikes. In 2009, they started taking a plunge and have been close to the bottom ever since, just for bad handling/suspension characteristics. I'm a suzuki guy, and their mx bikes went from last to first in 2011. However, on the sport bikes, suzuki went from dominating the field to just "ok," and most bikes you see out there on the grid today are Hondas.

to the OP: do you want to ride track or trails more? With an mx bike you can do both, with a trails bike, you can only do one.

I would be interested in doing both...although there are more moto tracks around here than there are trails

 

[509lifted]

u also gotta think u cant use 2 strokes on trails in the us anymore so if ur gonna be doing trail riding i would be getting a 4 stroke just my 2 cents

 

[nb11]

u also gotta think u cant use 2 strokes on trails in the us anymore so if ur gonna be doing trail riding i would be getting a 4 stroke just my 2 cents

I believe you're misled. The reason two strokes aren't as popular as they once were has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with emissions or any other hokey story somebody tries to sell you.

The rise of 4-strokes in competitive offroad racing is a direct result of the AMA allowing 450cc 4-strokes to race 250cc 2-strokes, and allowing 250cc 4-strokes to race 125cc 2-strokes. This act has almost killed the 2-smoker.

OP: Riding on tracks is a ton of fun. So if I were in your boat, I'd definitely spring for a motocross bike. Now the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke thing is up to you, but I'll hit you with some facts.

4-strokes have a more smooth power delivery. They fire every other stroke, so the power is less abrupt. They shine on slick or hard pack surfaces because of their ease to control. However, on the track, they're line selection is a little limited. They like wide arcing turns that you carry speed through, where a 2-stroke can come in hard, bury the front end, slide the back around, grab a little clutch and be back up to speed. Also, 4-strokes are a lot heavier and a LOT more expensive to maintain. You have to periodically have the valves adjusted, and when its time for a top-end rebuild, you'll be out at least $1000.

2-strokes are light, flickable, have a very snappy powerband, and are an absolute blast to ride. They do take a little more effort to ride, though. If the rider makes a mistake, things seem to happen a little more quickly. But 2-strokes aren't limited as far as line choices on the track. They can cut out of a line at anytime, which is an advantage when racing against 4-strokes. cc to cc, they make a lot more power and torque. A 250 2-stroke makes 10 more horsepower and 10 more ftlbs of torque than a 250f.
The biggest selling point for me is the cost. A two stroke top end can be rebuilt 3-4 times for the same price as one 4 stroke rebuild. I just got the latest issue of Motocross Action yesterday and they had an article about a YZ250 (two stroke) that had catastrophic failure due to being run too lean (not something that happens often) and the head and cylinder needed to be repaired, and it needed a new piston. They send the cylinder and head out for repair, did the rebuild work themselves (because its easy enough a monkey could do it) and it cost less than $500 for a completely new top end. That's about a fourth of what it would have cost to rebuild a fourstroke.


Do some browsing at www.motocrossactionmag.com. they have a lot of throrough bike tests and they don't sugarcoat anything. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Feel free to PM me

 

[03ranger30]

I believe you're misled. The reason two strokes aren't as popular as they once were has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with emissions or any other hokey story somebody tries to sell you.

The rise of 4-strokes in competitive offroad racing is a direct result of the AMA allowing 450cc 4-strokes to race 250cc 2-strokes, and allowing 250cc 4-strokes to race 125cc 2-strokes. This act has almost killed the 2-smoker.

OP: Riding on tracks is a ton of fun. So if I were in your boat, I'd definitely spring for a motocross bike. Now the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke thing is up to you, but I'll hit you with some facts.

4-strokes have a more smooth power delivery. They fire every other stroke, so the power is less abrupt. They shine on slick or hard pack surfaces because of their ease to control. However, on the track, they're line selection is a little limited. They like wide arcing turns that you carry speed through, where a 2-stroke can come in hard, bury the front end, slide the back around, grab a little clutch and be back up to speed. Also, 4-strokes are a lot heavier and a LOT more expensive to maintain. You have to periodically have the valves adjusted, and when its time for a top-end rebuild, you'll be out at least $1000.

2-strokes are light, flickable, have a very snappy powerband, and are an absolute blast to ride. They do take a little more effort to ride, though. If the rider makes a mistake, things seem to happen a little more quickly. But 2-strokes aren't limited as far as line choices on the track. They can cut out of a line at anytime, which is an advantage when racing against 4-strokes. cc to cc, they make a lot more power and torque. A 250 2-stroke makes 10 more horsepower and 10 more ftlbs of torque than a 250f.
The biggest selling point for me is the cost. A two stroke top end can be rebuilt 3-4 times for the same price as one 4 stroke rebuild. I just got the latest issue of Motocross Action yesterday and they had an article about a YZ250 (two stroke) that had catastrophic failure due to being run too lean (not something that happens often) and the head and cylinder needed to be repaired, and it needed a new piston. They send the cylinder and head out for repair, did the rebuild work themselves (because its easy enough a monkey could do it) and it cost less than $500 for a completely new top end. That's about a fourth of what it would have cost to rebuild a fourstroke.


Do some browsing at www.motocrossactionmag.com. they have a lot of throrough bike tests and they don't sugarcoat anything. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Feel free to PM me

Thank you, a lot of helpful information there.

Here is the other kicker, should I loo to buy new or used?
Used is appealing because it is cheaper, however the bikes could have a past that I don't know about (crashes, rebuild, etc.). New is more expensive however I could make payments and it is a brand new bike.

Thanks guys

 

[Gotta_gofast]

The way this toy market is, you can damn near steal a used bike off of craigslist. I would shop around for a used bike to get you into the sport.

 

[03ranger30]

That's what I was thinking about doing, paying monthly for a bike and my truck would be a pain in the ass.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

If you're looking for one, right now is the best time. If you wait until spring/summer the prices of summer toys usually inflate.

 

[03ranger30]

Sadly I'm probably going to have a wait a while to get one. I don't have the money and being in school sucks, but hopefully next summer I will be able to get one.

 

[triumphrider-1]

Just an FYI, the air-cooled motors (both 2 and 4 stroke) have different characteristics than their liquid-cooled counterparts.

 

[nb11]

Just an FYI, the air-cooled motors (both 2 and 4 stroke) have different characteristics than their liquid-cooled counterparts.

Very true. However, he says there's a lot of tracks around where he lives, and most air-cooled are more for trails, i.e. lower rpm's and softer suspension.




You can get a sweet deal on used bikes. However, give them a real thorough inspection though. Make sure they don't make any strange noises, not burning oil (4stroke) etc. If buying a used 4-stroke, just remember that it'll eventually need work, and may already need it when you buy it. A friend of mine who just rides on the weekends, not racing every week, buys a new 450f every other year or every year, he's on his 4th, so he can avoid shop fees lol. Instead of dropping 1-2K into shop fees, he just invests that back into a new bike.

 

[03ranger30]

I think I will start looking at yz250, or maybe even 125s cause I am not super experienced with riding.

 

[triumphrider-1]

Very true. However, he says there's a lot of tracks around where he lives, and most air-cooled are more for trails, i.e. lower rpm's and softer suspension.

I agree with the softer suspension, but not the RPM range. My 400's use the same motor/setup (minus pre-mixing fuels) that the MX version used. That, and I have/had vintage MX on my mind.


The yz's are good, might also check out the cr's and rm's (Honda and Suzuki, respectively).