Ranger Sport Honduras official build thread

[Ranger Sport Honduras]

here is a sas with homemade long arms using some square tube and tractor parts. i would never personally go this route since i have better parts available but if its all you have then you gotta do what ya gotta do.

in my eyes this thing is sketchy as FAWK!!! but he was going after HEIGHT and HEIGHT alone. had several issues with the truck including but not limited to riped the frame apart from his trac-bar. if you build somthing like this and DIE it's NOT MY FAULT!!! you might be o.k. due to going for a lower stance but it is what it is. truck was put together way to quickly and i believe that is why it was on the verge of self destruction. I dont think he ever really wheeled it after he did this so no idea of how it perfromed. did this after i did mine. actually used ALOT of parts i was throwing out.


http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2511141

I see he did a crossmember soft of thing for the long arms, but bolted to the frame?
i think i would be better welding it, or no?
Ill try my best to get a pair of tractor heims.
but the issue is, i dont think i can find a place to make the thread inside the tube for them.

^^i think that would be fine... IF it wasn't so tall..

I wont go that tall.

I just went through the past few pages of the thread, so lets see if I can help out with my two cents here:

1) You will WANT at least two Heim-type joints to use where you mount the arms to the truck. You can use bushings, but I think even with 'mild' wheeling, you will be unhappy with the performance of the system. That's not to mention you'll probably wind up eating bushings on a regular basis at that end of the system (even if you only run mild trails). Do what you can to get some proper joints in that location, the rest of the system (axle end) you can use bushings without a problem.

2) I've seen alot of the clayton stuff first hand, and it works just fine. 1/4" wall square tube will work if that's what you have access too. Round is better, but I wouldn't be scared of square so to speak.

3) How much lift (if any) are you shooting for? If you're keeping the lift under 4 ish inches, a 35" arm should work just fine for ya with the things you want to do.

4) While its nice to have, adjustable arms aren't mandatory. It does make setting everything up that much easier though.

5) Shoot for 5-6° caster in the front end (Top ball joints leaning toward the firewall). This tends to be the happy spot, and if you're not running stuipd lift, you shouldn't have to worry about the pinion angle either as it'll be close enough (stock caster spec on the Dana 30s is 4-8° from Jeep).

6) What are you going to do about a track bar (Panhard)? For what its worth, I've never liked the feeling of track bars with bushings in them. I like systems that have heims instead (or similar type joints). It makes the system feel tighter/crisper. But I realize that this a mostly a personal preferance.

7) Granted I'm running an entirely different front end setup, but I don't have any 'sketchy' moments running down the highway at 70-80 mph, though it does take me a long time to get up to that speed.

I hope some of my ramblings help!

Ill try to get a pair of heims, if i cant ill have to settle with bushings

Im not that dead set on square, if i find round i could use that too.

I expect to have at least 3.5 to 4 inches of susp lift.
because i already have a 2" bodylift that cant get rid of.
if i do my t case shifter will hit the airbag switch.
besides i have 31"s and dont plan on going bigger because my 4 banger feels good enough with them and the 4.10 gearing.
so a total of 5 to 5.5 lift, i can live with that.
my cousin has 5 inches on his with 31s and looks decent.
tall like a mosquito, but i like that look.

10-4 on the caster deal.

Ill use the stock Xj trac-bar.

Thanks for your advice Kage.

I've seen numbers of y link arms with bushings on axleside... Works great.. Was my plan.

Dave's TJ is a flex monster on arms with flex joints at the frame and bushing at the axle..

Yes the rear is 4 linked. But the front flexes just as good.
Personally I prefer bushings at the axle for a dd.

keep in mind i dont actually need THAT much flex.
and ive seen some stock susp Xj's and the bushings flex fine.

long Arms with bushings is a huge improvement considering i had 2wd A arms.

Couldnt go to work on the truck today, Ill try to get something done tomorrow.

 

[escort_gts]

Hopefully with all this info you can get RSH back together with what little resources you have there.

 

[Ranger Sport Honduras]

Yeah escort i hope.
My cousin says we could have it rolling again in a week or week and a half.
I just need some bucks to get the materials for the arms, some steel for frame reinforcement and the crossmember, new brake lines and new fittings for the steering box.

 

[Kage]

I see he did a crossmember soft of thing for the long arms, but bolted to the frame?
i think i would be better welding it, or no?

Bolting it is fine, and is probably preferred if you need to pull the transmission out in the future for any reason. Take a look at the TTB trucks (or older F-Series/Broncos). They just us a bolt in cross member to hold it all together. Google is your friend here.

Ill try my best to get a pair of tractor heims.
but the issue is, i dont think i can find a place to make the thread inside the tube for them.

I realize that getting some of this stuff shipped into your country (or even made locally) is going to be a pain. But you need to consider the consequence of what can happen if things go wrong. Those joints on the frame side are going to be what's doing the majority of the work holding your front end in place. That's not something you want to have fail when bombing down the road at 80 mph. Even if it holds up your build for awhile, its worth it to get the right parts.

If you must go bushings, copy what Ford did on the TTB or older Radius Arm trucks with their bushings. Those seem to hold up decently over time, but I'm not sure how available the bushings would be in your country either?

Ill use the stock Xj trac-bar.

You'll proably need to lop off of the frame side and redo that. Ideally with a heim joint

keep in mind i dont actually need THAT much flex.
and ive seen some stock susp Xj's and the bushings flex fine.

Yes, you can make the stock XJ junk work (idea wise), but those bushings will fail fairly regularly when offroading often. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Take your time and gather the right parts. You'll be much happier in the end.

 

[Ranger Sport Honduras]

Bolting it is fine, and is probably preferred if you need to pull the transmission out in the future for any reason. Take a look at the TTB trucks (or older F-Series/Broncos). They just us a bolt in cross member to hold it all together. Google is your friend here.


I realize that getting some of this stuff shipped into your country (or even made locally) is going to be a pain. But you need to consider the consequence of what can happen if things go wrong. Those joints on the frame side are going to be what's doing the majority of the work holding your front end in place. That's not something you want to have fail when bombing down the road at 80 mph. Even if it holds up your build for awhile, its worth it to get the right parts.

If you must go bushings, copy what Ford did on the TTB or older Radius Arm trucks with their bushings. Those seem to hold up decently over time, but I'm not sure how available the bushings would be in your country either?

You'll proably need to lop off of the frame side and redo that. Ideally with a heim joint


Yes, you can make the stock XJ junk work (idea wise), but those bushings will fail fairly regularly when offroading often. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Take your time and gather the right parts. You'll be much happier in the end.

Ill reinforce the frame and bolt it then.
is a crossmember mandatory there?

Ill check out the ttb setup
if im not wrong i think ive seen a similar setup on the Solid axled Toyota Land Cruiser. they kept making onw and it has coils up front.
but i bet my left ball those bushings are expensive to get around here too
sucks that some stuff isnt available here.
Thats what i get for gettin into building something U.S. style but in Honduras...

haha someone has a thing for heim joints.
the track bar already has a ball joint there

Ill try to get the joints.
But i cant promise.

 

[escort_gts]

Just don't half-ass it. You'll be sorry later on if you do.

 

[Ranger Sport Honduras]

Just don't half-ass it. You'll be sorry later on if you do.

Judging the pics u sent me, that guy did a half assed job?
i dont like how small his amr brackets look, and the fact that he didnt went for a Y set up.

I want to make my brackets better than his, and also a crossmember for the arms.
I see he went with bushings on both sides tho

 

[kroussinoffroad]

i'm running the rusty's arms with a flex joint at the upper and rubber bushings on the axle. with the amount of flex they put down i smoke thru the axle bushings like no other. I have replaced them every year now. havent went urethane yet due to the general consensus (sp) that they are much more ridgid and prone to cracking

 

[escort_gts]

Judging the pics u sent me, that guy did a half assed job?
i dont like how small his amr brackets look, and the fact that he didnt went for a Y set up.

I want to make my brackets better than his, and also a crossmember for the arms.
I see he went with bushings on both sides tho

Yes he did half-ass it. The pics were just examples for the 4 link setup with square tubing.

 

[Ranger Sport Honduras]

i'm running the rusty's arms with a flex joint at the upper and rubber bushings on the axle. with the amount of flex they put down i smoke thru the axle bushings like no other. I have replaced them every year now. havent went urethane yet due to the general consensus (sp) that they are much more ridgid and prone to cracking

But again, keep in mind my truck isnt as heavy.

Yes he did half-ass it. The pics were just examples for the 4 link setup with square tubing.

hahaha.
dont worry, mine will be better than that

 

[kroussinoffroad]

But again, keep in mind my truck isnt as heavy.

the mazda couldnt have weighed too much more than yous when i was on the D-30

 

[Kage]

Ill reinforce the frame and bolt it then.
is a crossmember mandatory there?

Yes.

...if im not wrong i think ive seen a similar setup on the Solid axled Toyota Land Cruiser. they kept making onw and it has coils up front.

I 'think' those have a 5 link setup similar to the Cherokee. Its been awhile since I've climbed under one though so I'm not certain.

haha someone has a thing for heim joints.

Nah, just a 'heim style' type of joint. I got tired or replacing bushings year after year so I do tend to favor using alternatives. You don't have to listen to me, but I've been down this road before so I'm trying to help you out with my experience here.

...the track bar already has a ball joint there

The Chreokee Track Bar has a bushing on the axle side and a tie rod end on the frame side. Making a bracket to retain the tie rod end on the frame side willl likely be a pain in the ass. And since you'll really be hacking up the track bar to make it work with the ranger, that's why I suggested ditching that joint in favor for a heim (or whatever) joint there. You will not be able to get away with using a bushing on both ends of the trac bar due to how the suspension will move, so its a must to have some sort of 'ball' type joint at one end to allow for things to move.

One thing to look out for, the bracket where the track bar meets up to the axle on the Dana 30 likes to get the hole wallowed out over time. This slop will allow the track bar to move quite a bit and cause death wobble. Just something to check on real quick before you slap it under the truck.

Depending on who you ask, the track bar is the number 1 or 2 most important link in the system. It is often the main cause of death wobble, and other 'steering oddities', so make sure you don't skimp here, and pay attention to how you set it up.

Ill try to get the joints.
But i cant promise.

I understand, but you will be much happier with some sort of greasable heim joint.

Just don't half-ass it. You'll be sorry later on if you do.

This. Take your time and do it right. Otherwise you'd nearly be better off leaving it 2wd rather than having a sketchy, half assed, 4wd conversion. I know you're not looking to run the extreme stuff, but the same principals apply.

Judging the pics u sent me, that guy did a half assed job?

That thing was very half assed, or Ghetto if you prefer.

i'm running the rusty's arms with a flex joint at the upper and rubber bushings on the axle. with the amount of flex they put down i smoke thru the axle bushings like no other. I have replaced them every year now. havent went urethane yet due to the general consensus (sp) that they are much more ridgid and prone to cracking

On my XJ, I use to run the Rubicon Express stuff (Johnny Joint on one end, and bushings on the axle end). About every year and a half I would need to replace the axle bushings. And yeah, STAY AWAY from urethane bushings if it goes off road. They will die quickly.

But again, keep in mind my truck isnt as heavy....

Its heavier than a Jeep Cherokee, with a much different weight distrubution. So that front end will have more forces acting upon it than what the same system would see on the front of a Cherokee.

While you'll be at the limit of the Dana 30, it'll be fine so long as you're not retarded with it (Don't jump it, or flog it in general). You might see accelerated wear on the ball joints and unit bearings compared to what you would see in the Jeep application, but it'll be good enough.

Take the time to get the front end setup correctly, witht the appropriate joints/etc, and you'll be happier with the end product. If you skimp out on things and rush through it, you will wind up with a truck you hate to drive. This isn't an impossible job to do so long as its thought out.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ranger Sport Honduras]

Ok so a crossmember is mandatory. ill make one.

A year worth of bushing life doesnt sound that bad. if i cant get some heims

Im expecting to keep the tie rod on one side of the trac bar, and ill check the axle bracket, and maybe find something to reinforce it.

As far as ive seen and read. when the truck rests in a leveled surface, the tracbar must have a parallel line with the drag link.
so i must set it so it has the same amount of movement upwards and downwards right?

Ill stay away from urethane, dont worry.

And as for retarded actions lol, dont worry i wont force the truck do anything that cant be achieved.
i just want to have power at the front wheels and do some mild trail riding

 

[dangerranger83]

I didnt use a crossmember for where I bolted my arms to my frame and have been rocking my truck that way for over a year now. I dont know how strong the frames are on later trucks so you may have to make one depending on that.

As for the trackbar mount and using the XJ TRE mount, I do agree it can wollow out but if you use a tapered fitting for the TRE, it wont wollow out on you, its just like a TRE fitting on a steering knuckle. The only problem i had was I didnt tighten the TRE enough on mine and thats how I got a DW from it. Once I fixed that I havent had once since and she drives like a charm.

I do plan on going with upgraded bushing and maybe getting rid of my TRE trackbar, but I will see about all of that after my v8 swap. this spring/summer.

 

[Kage]

..As far as ive seen and read. when the truck rests in a leveled surface, the tracbar must have a parallel line with the drag link.
so i must set it so it has the same amount of movement upwards and downwards right?

In happy ideal land, the track bar, and the drag link are the same length, run parallel to each other, and have the same piviot point as well. Since its pretty much impossible to make that happen due to space constraints, You'll need to:

1) Make is as parallel as possible to the drag link at ride height (The further from parallel you are, the more bump steer you'll get).

2) Make the bar as close to the same lenght as the drag link.

...As for the trackbar mount and using the XJ TRE mount, I do agree it can wollow out but if you use a tapered fitting for the TRE, it wont wollow out on you, its just like a TRE fitting on a steering knuckle. ...

I was referring to the bolt that is being used to attach the track bar to the axle. That hole on the bracket has a tendency to walloy out (elongate) over time. Easy to fix, just something to check that can be overlooked during the build process. The TRE side of things usually isn't a problem so long as you don't overextend that joint, or just let it get sloppy.