Power Windows are not working.

[Kalwren]

Hi folks,

I'm looking for some help with this issue. I've done some searching around in the forums and have come up with a couple of things to check but I'd like to ask if there are any electrical experts out there.

I don't know much about electrical in a vehicle and I don't know how to use a voltmeter properly, although I have one. And I have a test light. So I have the tools, now I need the knowledge.

The issue:

Both of my windows rolled down the other day, but now they won't roll up.

When clicking the button on either door for the window to go up or down, the motor doesn't run. However, the cab light dims just a tad and the voltmeter on the dash dips down quite a bit. It does this if the key is in the ON position or if the engine is running.

I thought I might get lucky by replacing the 30 amp fuse ($5 at Pep Boys! ) and that didn't fix the issue, nor did it change the symptoms.

The master switch on the drivers side has never worked for the passenger window since I bought the truck several months ago.

The passenger switch has always worked, up until recently. It's flaked out a couple times and not worked at all. I'd leave the truck sit for an hour or so and then be able to roll up the window normally. This has happened twice before it stopped working entirely.

When I first bought the truck and started tackling this issue, I took apart the master switch from the drivers window. On the master switch, the switch for for the passenger window is physically worn out. Using a pencil, I could click down on the contacts and roll the window up or down. (Don't use a pencil though, it'll start smoking...lol) My truck has other more important issues, so the window thing went to the back burner. Now this one requires to be fixed.

I'm looking for suggestions as to where to start and what to do? Other posts I've read about this, say to clean the switch with contact cleaner. Will MAF sensor cleaner do the job, too?

Other posts had mentioned that it's a grounding issue but I don't know how to trace one down.

I'd appreciate any assistance with this please. Sorry for the long post, I wanted to be as detailed as possible. Thanks for your time!

EDIT: I forgot to mention. Every other electrical component on the truck is working correctly.

 

[wvcat]

I would guess it has bad window switches, probably beyond cleaning.

 

[RobbieD]

My best guess is that your switches are pooched. MAF cleaner is an electrical contact cleaner; you've got nothing to lose if you hose the switches with MAF, and it might even be a temporary fix.

Troubleshooting, power windows are really simple. You need power, and ground, at the switches. The ground is just as important as power, and a test light is fine for testing. Just test across the two wires.
Each motor has two wires; power one and ground one, the motor turns. Reverse the polarity (switch the wires), and the motor turns the other way.
Except for the switch's power wires, all other wires rest at ground, until a switch is pressed.

Likely, good switches from the boneyard will be your best fix. Otherwise, look for an open break, or a limp spot, in one of the wires; another possibility is a bad wire or frayed conductor strands inside the insulation. Take your time, think it through, and good luck.

 

[Kalwren]

Thank you for the replies.

I had some time to look at it today and I'm stumped. I took the switch out and cleaned it with MAF cleaner. I put it back in and tested it and it's not made a difference.

However, since taking the door panel off, I can hear the motor trying to turn. It kinda clicks when I push the switch in either direction.

What I don't understand, is if the motor is bad... why won't the passenger side work?

I can't devise a way to apply power to the terminals of the motor in order to test it.

Anyone have suggestions on how I can do that? Where can I safely get 12 volts from, that I can connect to the power plug on the motor?

 

[RobbieD]

I use pre-made jumper wires- a length of wire with an aligator clip on each end. Some of my test leads also have a circuit breaker wired into them, too, for jumping power when a short circuit may be present.

Just remember that power window wires normally rest at ground- be sure that you unplug the motor, and then apply jumpers to the motor side plug if you're testing it.

You can access power in the door by clipping a test lead alligator clip to power terminal behind the window switch (key on), or to the power terminal behind the power lock switch (constant power).

If a motor will turn (and you say it "kinda clicks"), then the drive pins may be bad. There was a good post on repairing that problem that in this forum in the past few days.

 

[Kalwren]

Thanks again for the reply.

Good idea on tapping into existing wiring.

I decided on your alligator clip idea and I'll use a battery from my Jetski. Easy, portable power. Will that work ok?

I'm thinking it might be the master switch on the drivers side. The motor sounds like it wants to run, but it won't.

The reason I don't think it's a problem with motor - is that it's happening on both the passenger and the drivers side - at the exact same time. The likelihood of both motors going out at the exact same time is very low.

So I think it's either the master switch or some kind of power or grounding issue. I'll let you know tomorrow when I can apply power to the motor and see what it does.

What do you think? Switch issue? Power or ground issue?

 

[RobbieD]

If the Jetski battery is 12 volts it should work fine for a testing power supply.

Your reasoning is good. The driver's side master switch is the weakest link in the whole system. A good test, would be to remove the driver switch and jumper the window circuits, one side at a time, at the wiring harness connector. You can do that with a pair of bent paper clips, even; do one in front and one in back to avoid them touching and shorting. This test would check the truck's power and ground feeds, and everything else, while bypassing the suspect switch.

Wire colors at the driver's switch:
Ground- Black
Power- L Blue/Black (key on)
Driver motor- Red/Yellow
Driver motor- Yellow/Red
Passenger motor- Tan/L Blue
Passenger motor- White/Yellow
Motor direction, or "up" and "down", will depend on how you apply the polarity to the motor wires.

You're getting a good handle on it; good luck.

 

[Kalwren]

Wow, exceptional response! Thank you!

I thought about jumpering the window circuits, but I wasn't sure which one was for which. I was afraid I would jumper power to power - and blow something.

Thank you SO much for the detailed response on the wiring! I'm going to test it now.

If the Jetski battery is 12 volts it should work fine for a testing power supply.

Your reasoning is good. The driver's side master switch is the weakest link in the whole system. A good test, would be to remove the driver switch and jumper the window circuits, one side at a time, at the wiring harness connector. You can do that with a pair of bent paper clips, even; do one in front and one in back to avoid them touching and shorting. This test would check the truck's power and ground feeds, and everything else, while bypassing the suspect switch.

Wire colors at the driver's switch:
Ground- Black
Power- L Blue/Black (key on)
Driver motor- Red/Yellow
Driver motor- Yellow/Red
Passenger motor- Tan/L Blue
Passenger motor- White/Yellow
Motor direction, or "up" and "down", will depend on how you apply the polarity to the motor wires.

You're getting a good handle on it; good luck.

 

[Kalwren]

I was able to roll up both windows by applying power directly to each motor with a 12V battery from my Jetski.

I've not figured out how to properly jumper though. I tried jumpering first to test to see if the switch is bad. I don't think I did the jumper properly though as neither motor would turn.

I jumpered directly between power and the corresponding power wire to the motor. I didn't use ground. I couldn't quite figure out what you meant by using two paperclips and not having them touch.

Could you explain that in a little more detail please?

What I was doing, was jumpering between:
Power- L Blue/Black (key on) and Driver motor- Red/Yellow

and

Power- L Blue/Black (key on) and Passenger motor- Tan/L Blue

This wouldn't make the motor run. I'm assuming I was doing something wrong, as you need power and ground for them to work, right?

And yes, I had the key in the ON position. I also tried ACC.

Thanks again!

 

[RobbieD]

I jumpered directly between power and the corresponding power wire to the motor. I didn't use ground. I couldn't quite figure out what you meant by using two paperclips and not having them touch.
Could you explain that in a little more detail please?

The ground is needed. With the connector unplugged, when you applied power to one motor wire, there was no return path to ground, so the circuit wasn't completed.

In normal operation, when the power window switch is pressed, it applies power to one of the two motor wires, and at the same time it also leaves the second wire grounded. This is how the complete circuit is accomplished.

What I was doing, was jumpering between:
Power- L Blue/Black (key on) and Driver motor- Red/Yellow

Add to that, a second jumper between the connector's Black ground wire, and the driver's motor Yellow/Red wire. The window will move one direction.

Then, you can reverse your jumpers- L Blue/Black (power) to motor Yellow/Red; and the Black (ground) to Red/Yellow. The motor will now move in the other direction.

and

Power- L Blue/Black (key on) and Passenger motor- Tan/L Blue

Repeat the same drill for the passenger side- L Blue/Black to motor Tan/L Blue, and Black to motor White/Yellow; the window moves one way. Reverse your jumpers to make it move the other way.

This wouldn't make the motor run. I'm assuming I was doing something wrong, as you need power and ground for them to work, right?

Right! You need power AND ground. This type of circuit is called a "reversal, rest at ground". It's really easy to troubleshoot, once it's understood how it works. Hang in there; you're making good progress.

 

[Kalwren]

Thank you very much for your detailed responses! I appreciate your help!

I'll give this another whirl tomorrow morning, just to see if I can get it to work.

That'll tell me if my switch is bad or not. I'm thinking about taking it apart tonight and hosing it down with MAF cleaner and see if it'll help.

I went to the boneyard last weekend and picked up a few misc. parts for my truck. Looks like I'll be heading back and trying to find me a couple switches.

My electric mirrors have never worked quite right. The right one works fine, the left one doesn't go int he proper direction depending on the way you push the little joystick. It's all wonky. I'll get one of those switches, as well.

 

[Kalwren]

Hi folks.

My problem is still happening.

I searched the boneyard for switches for my truck and didn't find any. I found a full set of used replacement switches on Ebay for $10.

I can roll the passenger window up AND down now. Or I could, anyway...

Neither of my windows are working again, after replacing the master switch.

I'm thinking it's a ground problem, as the problem seems to be intermittent.

Where are the power windows grounded to?

Also, if I take off the tape that is on the wiring thats keeping it all bunched together and neat, where can I get replacement tape? Is it just standard electrical tape? It seems like it, but it doesn't feel like it. It has a texture to it on the outside. The electrical tape I have, is smooth.

Thanks in advance!

 

[RobbieD]

Where are the power windows grounded to?

G201, bolted to side, high up on the driver's side behind the dash, to the cowl metal to the left-hand side. Sorry; it's not the easiest place to get to.

Also, if I take off the tape that is on the wiring thats keeping it all bunched together and neat, where can I get replacement tape? Is it just standard electrical tape? It seems like it, but it doesn't feel like it. It has a texture to it on the outside. The electrical tape I have, is smooth.

"Friction tape", is the name for the black cloth adhesive-coated electrical tape. It's a good substitute for the factory stuff. But, if you're careful, you can unwind the factory tape and reuse it; just retape the ends with vinyl or friction electrical tape. The factory tape doesn't have much sticky on it.

 

[Kalwren]

G201, bolted to side, high up on the driver's side behind the dash, to the cowl metal to the left-hand side. Sorry; it's not the easiest place to get to.



"Friction tape", is the name for the black cloth adhesive-coated electrical tape. It's a good substitute for the factory stuff. But, if you're careful, you can unwind the factory tape and reuse it; just retape the ends with vinyl or friction electrical tape. The factory tape doesn't have much sticky on it.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. I'll do some digging. Maybe it's a bad ground causing the problem and an "easy" fix, rather than chasing wires everywhere.

I hear your leaving us for a bit. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[RobbieD]

Glad to help, and I hope that it does help you out.

Yeah, I'll be gone for another two weeks, and going through heavy TRS withdrawal the whole time. Oh, the pain!

Good luck, man.