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Only have RABS, do I really need to open the bleeders when replacing the front pads?


barrys

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
280
City
Bay Area, CA
Vehicle Year
2010
Transmission
Automatic
I have RABS only so no ABS on the fronts. I'm going to be replacing the front pads. I have a pressure bleeder so cracking the bleed screws when I push the caliper piston back is not the end of the world. But, since I just replaced the brake fluid a year ago, I'm wondering what real risk I'm taking by just pushing back the pistons and letting the fluid go back up the system.

I guess a more specific question might be, when I did the fluid replacement, did I really replace all the fluid in the caliper or is there some kind of resevoir in there (like in the nooks and crannies of an auto trans) where the fluid didn't get flushed.

P.S. A few months ago I was checking my wheel bearing adjustment and pushed the caliper pistons back with a screwdriver levering the caliper. That probably sent a decent amount of fluid from the caliper back up into the system.
 
Don't worry about it. I press them back everyday at work when I change pads/ do brake work. ABS or not.
 
OK, now that I've got your attention... :)
Do you replace or reuse the pins with a little sanding and grease?
And, a couple more questions is you have a minute...
Would you remove and remachine a rotor that was almost mirror smooth with almost no lip where the pad stops?
At what point do I replace the bearings? The truck has 127K and I think those bearings are original.
 
OK, now that I've got your attention... :)
Do you replace or reuse the pins with a little sanding and grease?
And, a couple more questions is you have a minute...
Would you remove and remachine a rotor that was almost mirror smooth with almost no lip where the pad stops?
At what point do I replace the bearings? The truck has 127K and I think those bearings are original.

On my own truck I reuse them as long as the rubber between the metal bits is in good shape and not rock hard. If you are doubt of them...replace them as they can back out and fall out. I usually give them a good cleaning with some scotchbirght pad. I've never greased mine as that just seems to attract dirt.

If you have no grooving or major runout issues with them, by all means throw pads on and call it good. Machining is a good way to go so you are starting with a fresh braking surface, but also every time you machine, they get thinner, thus making them more susceptible to warpage.

Bearings need to be replaced when they are worn or pitted. If both the rollers and cones are in good shape with nice polished surfaces with no pitting/rust they are fine to use. I don't think there is any way to state a specific mileage to replace them. Clean them, repack with fresh grease and replace the grease seal in the back of the rotor.
 
Don't worry about it. I press them back everyday at work when I change pads/ do brake work. ABS or not.

Agreed. I've been doing it every day for almost 20 years and have never had a problem. Nobody else in our shop opens bleeders either and I don't know of one vehicle ever having a problem because of it.
 
AH! I will say this....do NOT do this on an Escape Hybrid. This I know for a fact. You have to either open the bleeders, or if you are working at a dealership you can use Ford's IDS scan tool to retract the pistons. If you force 'contaminated' fluid back into the hydraulic control unit it will fck it up severely, requiring it to be replaced. Dealer cost on this item.....$2300 CAD....
 
AH! I will say this....do NOT do this on an Escape Hybrid. This I know for a fact. You have to either open the bleeders, or if you are working at a dealership you can use Ford's IDS scan tool to retract the pistons. If you force 'contaminated' fluid back into the hydraulic control unit it will fck it up severely, requiring it to be replaced. Dealer cost on this item.....$2300 CAD....

Ouch!

Do you happen to know why this happens?
 
On the Ranger with RABS, there is no ABS on the front disk brakes. I'm waiting for a Ford tech to hopefully respond and confirm that the fluid just goes between the caliper and the master cylinder/resevior for the fronts and doesn't go to the ABS pump.

On newer cars with delicate, elaborate, 4 wheel ABS systems -- like that Prius -- it makes sense that there is a risk in sending brake fluid from the caliper back up into the fancy ABS pump. The fluid in the piston gets hot which can cause it to loose some of it's good properties. The seals are not perfect so it's possible for some dirt or other contaminents to get back into the fluid. With all that, it's not worth the risk.

To me a viable alternative is to pump some fresh fluid through the calipers with a pressure bleeder and the bleed screws open a bit. But, that's about as much work as doing a proper bleed during and after the piston pushback.

One thing I do know is that the Helm shop manual does not mention bleeding during the piston compression. Also, it does insist on using a pressure bleeder for bleeding (on my 94) when you have RABS if you're not using the fancy Ford special tool for bleeding the ABS pump.
 
Ouch!

Do you happen to know why this happens?

Not exactly sure on that...that was the response we got from Ford Tech Hotline...either way expensive lesson.
 
On the Ranger with RABS, there is no ABS on the front disk brakes. I'm waiting for a Ford tech to hopefully respond and confirm that the fluid just goes between the caliper and the master cylinder/resevior for the fronts and doesn't go to the ABS pump.

On newer cars with delicate, elaborate, 4 wheel ABS systems -- like that Prius -- it makes sense that there is a risk in sending brake fluid from the caliper back up into the fancy ABS pump. The fluid in the piston gets hot which can cause it to loose some of it's good properties. The seals are not perfect so it's possible for some dirt or other contaminents to get back into the fluid. With all that, it's not worth the risk.

To me a viable alternative is to pump some fresh fluid through the calipers with a pressure bleeder and the bleed screws open a bit. But, that's about as much work as doing a proper bleed during and after the piston pushback.

One thing I do know is that the Helm shop manual does not mention bleeding during the piston compression. Also, it does insist on using a pressure bleeder for bleeding (on my 94) when you have RABS if you're not using the fancy Ford special tool for bleeding the ABS pump.

Yes, with RABS...the fluid for the front brakes goes from the master to the front calipers. Only the rear line has the RABS valve in it.

Like I said...that escape hybrid is the only thing we have ever come across that got messed up from just pressing the calipers back when replacing pads/servicing brakes.

No need whatsoever to use a pressure bleeder for your truck, conventional brake bleeding works just fine. There really is never a need to complete an ABS service bleed on a vehicle unless you have replaced the HCU.

RABS and ABS are really quite different animals. You do not have a hydraulic control unit like the full 4wabs system does.

Edit:

Here is the description of operation of the RABS system:

The Rear Anti-Lock Brake System (RABS II) continually monitors rear wheel speed with a sensor mounted on the rear axle housing (4010) while the brakes are applied. When the teeth on the speed sensor ring, mounted on the ring gear, pass the sensor pole piece, an AC voltage is induced in the sensor circuit with a frequency proportional to the average rear wheel speed. In the event of an impending lockup condition during braking, the RABS II modulates hydraulic pressure to the rear brake drums (1126) . This inhibits rear wheel lockup.

When the brake pedal (2455) is applied, the anti-lock brake control module (2B373) senses the drop in rear wheel speed. If the rate of deceleration is too great, indicating that wheel lockup is going to occur, the anti-lock brake control module activates the electro-hydraulic valve causing the isolation valve to close. With the isolation valve closed, the rear wheel cylinders (2261) are isolated from the brake master cylinder (2140) and the rear brake pressure cannot increase. If the rate of deceleration is still too great, the anti-lock brake control module will energize the dump solenoid with a series of rapid pulses to bleed off rear wheel cylinder fluid into an accumulator built into the RABS valve. This will reduce the rear wheel cylinder pressure and allow the rear wheels (1007) to spin back up to vehicle speed. Continuing under RABS II module control, the dump and isolation solenoids will be pulsed in a manner that will keep the rear wheels rotating while still maintaining high levels of deceleration during braking.

At the end of the stop, when the operator releases the brake pedal , the isolation valve de-energizes and any fluid in the accumulator is returned to the rear brake tube (2267) and up to the brake master cylinder . Normal brake operation is resumed.
 
Last edited:
Its a sealed system ford escape or not the brake fluid gets dirty how? Ummm it dont. Just take the master cyl cap off, compress the caliper and go. A 6 inch or bigger c clamp and old brake pad work fine for this. You wont hurt nothing.

Nevermind the ford escape thing I just reread and it seems your not talking about pushing dirty fluid back into the master cylinder but more about the brake caliper setup itself and compression.
 
It wrecks the HCU for the ABS system froggy....only on the hybrid models tho.
 
It wrecks the HCU for the ABS system froggy....only on the hybrid models tho.


I believe it has something to do with the regenerative braking system. Everything has to be just so to get the transfer from regenerative to friction braking proper and safe and any little thing can mess up that balance and effectively the brakes.
 
Yea, the regenerative braking was disabled and the front brakes were inoperative.

Either way...expensive lesson. Lol.
 

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