Now it's all about the tuning...

[John Smith]

I have been ..

kinda collecting these 2100's for a couple years or so...I found the 1.01 on e-bay and it actually turned out very clean. I really had no plans for it till I bought this 84 B2. I was working on 2.3's then and collected few cores from a racer friend of mine. I since have bought up a few more cores as they have come along..I actually prefer the simplicity of the 2100 vs: the 2150 myself..especially the very early 60's versions.. I have 3 2150's, and 4 2100's at this point...(other than the one my B2 and the F150 a 1.14). They are 2100 1.02's, One being a manual choke y-block version...a great carb..yet unused..and one of the the four are mostly parts..the throttle shaft is stuck...but all are clean and usable...great for 50 year old carbs...this one on the B2 is a pre-64 1.01..most likely a 62...

 

[John Smith]

About the "power valve" power vs: economy

Since I'm working on my 351w and setting up a carb for it and I thought I would add a bit of suggestive info here.

I remember the days when carbs were the norm and of course proper fuel atomization and ignition tuning ruled. I also remember our family car (my dad was a master mechanic) having not only an aftermarket tach, but also a large 3" vacuum gauge on the top of the dash. This was a 58' chevy with a straight six, with overdrive and later also our 60' Chevy wagon. He was a stickler for getting good mileage and always was talking about what kind of mileage he was getting on a trip. We generally always had a car with an electric overdrive, even that old 50 something Studebaker we used to own.

One of the biggest concerns was watching the vacuum gauge while going thru the gears and cruising. Evidently he was trying to shift and accelerate in such a way as to not allow a massive drop in vacuum but rather "give it gas" cautiously so as to "stay out out the power valve" as much as possible. I was the carb guru at that time doing the tweaking and valve adjusting and tune-ups etc..(He wanted me to be a mechanic like himself and turned me loose to do all of this in my early teens).

Anyway..the concept was to setup a carb in such a way to use the leanest jets possible, set the accelerator pump to the leanest possible, (or disconnect it if you wanted to) and get the motor to run, be drivable within reason and select a power valve that would only come into play when wanting to "pass". (something that used to be a real concern before freeways, when successfully passing was many times a life and death situation )

If you had a vacuum gauge, and a tach, you could, from the driver's seat, search for the range of power that would accomplish all all of that.

Obviously a motor that allowed good economy in the low-speed torque range was the best situation...something you could do with a straight six or straight eight of the period especially if you had "overdrive".

On my 55 Ford I had my "kick-down switch move to neath the dash so I didn't have to "floor-it" to get to passing gear..but that's all y-block talk and other early 50's lingo.

This may be boring to most here who usually put the biggest carb on it to get screaming' thru the mud..but with today's fuel prices, some may be interested for daily driving.

Will this 2.8L be tunable for real economy? I don't know yet, but maybe this post will give an idea to some who wish to explore that angle. Some suggest it is built for RPM..and it sure seems to be easily tuned for that with warnings about floating the valves etc....I have been hanging around for a couple of years listening to various info on making "power" out of this motor and it's all good...but not much about real economy..except complaints from some about bad gas mileage..

This 2.8L seems to have more low rpm torque than a 2.3L..and as i move forward with a 2.8L I'm going to try and tune for that as much as is possible.

Remembering that my wants for this 2.8L B2 is to get to and from the box store for various needs so driving "37's" is not a wish for me....

So, about the "vacuum gauge"..

They come these days as boost/vacuum gauges generally, and having one well readable so as to watch my driving habits will be on my F150_351w Camper Special...and I WILL "vacuum" tune both rigs choosing a "power valve" appropriate for my driving habits....trying to manage vacuum to get the best mileage/power possible.

I didn't include any links RE: "the power valve subject"..a quick search will help you find all you need on the topic...and the search will take you..."back to the fifties" (or further) when ALL cars ran carbs...and tuning was a way of life if you worked on your own car...

It's interesting to note that my carb of choice, the "Autolite 2100" has become a populuar carb for many off-roaders of the "JEEP" family, and the topic of power valves are discussed there as well.

( I STILL like the idea of a Stromberg "97" on the manifold of a 2.3L....it just sounds right.. maybe one of these days..talk about simplicity..)

A long boring post I know..and If I don't answer a thread for a while I'm trying to get some work done....

Wish success for all who read here....

 

[drgrcr]

Some interesting stuff the thing is the 2.8 is a different animal all together. Must be the german engineering it is not like any strait 6 or v-8 I have ever worked on. I think I`m gonna get a old duraspark to play with I have a welder friend but I like the idea of quick advance off the line and the delay for total advance. Two different spring tensions sound like direction I`m gonna try first and reduce total advance about 4 degrees 10 degrees base with 10 degrees vacuum and 22 degrees mech advance. I wonder why MSD never made a dizzy for the 2.8 it wold be nice just changing the curve electronically.

MSD makes a module that is programmable. You could use a duraspark dizzy with a locked advance and program the curve with your lap top, then down load it into the MSD module, I suppose you could go crazy, because you could build a file for different curves and try a new one every week.....until you got lost.....

 

[drgrcr]

Since I'm working on my 351w and setting up a carb for it and I thought I would add a bit of suggestive info here.

I remember the days when carbs were the norm and of course proper fuel atomization and ignition tuning ruled. I also remember our family car (my dad was a master mechanic) having not only an aftermarket tach, but also a large 3" vacuum gauge on the top of the dash. This was a 58' chevy with a straight six, with overdrive and later also our 60' Chevy wagon. He was a stickler for getting good mileage and always was talking about what kind of mileage he was getting on a trip. We generally always had a car with an electric overdrive, even that old 50 something Studebaker we used to own.

One of the biggest concerns was watching the vacuum gauge while going thru the gears and cruising. Evidently he was trying to shift and accelerate in such a way as to not allow a massive drop in vacuum but rather "give it gas" cautiously so as to "stay out out the power valve" as much as possible. I was the carb guru at that time doing the tweaking and valve adjusting and tune-ups etc..(He wanted me to be a mechanic like himself and turned me loose to do all of this in my early teens).

Anyway..the concept was to setup a carb in such a way to use the leanest jets possible, set the accelerator pump to the leanest possible, (or disconnect it if you wanted to) and get the motor to run, be drivable within reason and select a power valve that would only come into play when wanting to "pass". (something that used to be a real concern before freeways, when successfully passing was many times a life and death situation )

If you had a vacuum gauge, and a tach, you could, from the driver's seat, search for the range of power that would accomplish all all of that.

Obviously a motor that allowed good economy in the low-speed torque range was the best situation...something you could do with a straight six or straight eight of the period especially if you had "overdrive".

On my 55 Ford I had my "kick-down switch move to neath the dash so I didn't have to "floor-it" to get to passing gear..but that's all y-block talk and other early 50's lingo.

This may be boring to most here who usually put the biggest carb on it to get screaming' thru the mud..but with today's fuel prices, some may be interested for daily driving.

Will this 2.8L be tunable for real economy? I don't know yet, but maybe this post will give an idea to some who wish to explore that angle. Some suggest it is built for RPM..and it sure seems to be easily tuned for that with warnings about floating the valves etc....I have been hanging around for a couple of years listening to various info on making "power" out of this motor and it's all good...but not much about real economy..except complaints from some about bad gas mileage..

This 2.8L seems to have more low rpm torque than a 2.3L..and as i move forward with a 2.8L I'm going to try and tune for that as much as is possible.

Remembering that my wants for this 2.8L B2 is to get to and from the box store for various needs so driving "37's" is not a wish for me....

So, about the "vacuum gauge"..

They come these days as boost/vacuum gauges generally, and having one well readable so as to watch my driving habits will be on my F150_351w Camper Special...and I WILL "vacuum" tune both rigs choosing a "power valve" appropriate for my driving habits....trying to manage vacuum to get the best mileage/power possible.

I didn't include any links RE: "the power valve subject"..a quick search will help you find all you need on the topic...and the search will take you..."back to the fifties" (or further) when ALL cars ran carbs...and tuning was a way of life if you worked on your own car...

It's interesting to note that my carb of choice, the "Autolite 2100" has become a populuar carb for many off-roaders of the "JEEP" family, and the topic of power valves are discussed there as well.

( I STILL like the idea of a Stromberg "97" on the manifold of a 2.3L....it just sounds right.. maybe one of these days..talk about simplicity..)

A long boring post I know..and If I don't answer a thread for a while I'm trying to get some work done....

Wish success for all who read here....

Ya gotta have a vacuum gauge and a tach, I with you I am looking to get the most mileage possible from this little 2.8, on regular fuel, with some spirited driving mixed in....of course

 

[drgrcr]

oh yeah, did your dad ever split the gears when driving the overdrive? like 1st gear then first over then second then second over.....

kinda like what Ford did with the 5 speed automatic.

 

[John Smith]

I'm not sure about him but..

since the o-drive guv'ner was on the tail-shaft, and unless you had the O'drive cable in LOCK-OUT...It would shift in 0'-drive at about 28-31 mph?..IIRC, I'm sure I have done it although not for any purpose..I hate to overstate what my memory can't clearly reproduce..It's been 50 years ago.....

BTW my 49 also had an overdrive, and a floor shifter for that three speed. I guess you can still by those floor shift conversion kits for the twin-rod actuated Ford trannies.. That was big stuff For a teenager and a 49 Ford..

 

[drgrcr]

MSD programmable 6AL2
here is the link
http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Ignitions/6530_-_MSD_Digital_Programmable_6AL-2.aspx

 

[John Smith]

pretty amazing units..

I remember working after school at an auto-electric shop rebuilding starters, generators etc, and installing something called "new electronic ignition"...to replace those pesky points..that was in the sixties..it's really grown hasn't it....

Also wiring in electric fuel pumps, and electric vacuum pumps for those "slow wipers"...

It's all progress, and when it works it's great, albeit not cheap...I know about the kewl electronic devices..and I'm not against them..but I DO like the simplicity of a set of points...and starting a car with a jumper wire if need be...

But those ignition boxes ARE kewl...

 

[John Smith]

An Update...

I finally got around to dropping in the single-can advance diz I picked up from Napa..It has an adjustable vac-advance can as well.

It seems to do a little better job at adjusting out the slight detonation i can get at times when warm...w/o any special curve changes. (I haven't had time to get into that deeply yet ..still working on my F150)

I AM getting a little water in cyl #1 though I think, I'm not loosing much water, but the plug indicates it, and I get white smoke after a hot restart sometimes.

I think I may change the head or HEADS in a few days. I hate to do just that to this motor, but I don't think the water problem is going to go away, but only get worse...

Anyway, the last fill-up for about 259 miles of driving gave me 18.51 MPG..again around town with about 60 miles of freeway driving..

The .044 jets are fine..(and might be what I want since were running E10) 5 plugs look great..(#1 plug is burning water)...not bad performance/economy for running E10 regular...

base timing is set at max vacuum less 2"HG or so..

Even with the #1 cyl issue..it starts great, runs great, and no CEL'S

 

[dangerranger83]

Know where I can get a set of smaller jets, I'm tired of my 10mpg and with gas prices getting worse, I have no choice. Just need a simple solution till my 302 swap.

Sent from my SGH-T499 using Tapatalk

 

[John Smith]

about the jets..

Know where I can get a set of smaller jets, I'm tired of my 10mpg and with gas prices getting worse, I have no choice. Just need a simple solution till my 302 swap.

Sent from my SGH-T499 using Tapatalk

Do you know which size you have now?...these Motorcraft jets are an odd thread size but they are available...or you can drill your own to size if you have a good tool supplier around...

anyway a couple of places...

http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Autolite_Motorcraft_Carburetor_Main_Jets_p/120-4.htm

http://www.allcarbs.com/detail.php?pid=159&gb=1&ctgn=27&stt=0

http://www.carburetion.com/ford2v.htm

not everyone stock jets smaller than 46's...check for sure..

the neat thing is you can get JUST the gaskets you need too..

another handy part for accel rod adjusting..

http://www.cjponyparts.com/V8-ACCEL-ROD-END-CLIP-1965-1968/p/HW634/

 

[John Smith]

when I fix the water problem in #1..

I probably will put in these 42's (jets) I have and give'm a spin. Since we are running the ethanol blend I might never be able to get it to run well properly leaned for race gas..(which is available here for $4.60 a gallon...not hardly worth it since I'm running stock compression right now)

If you want to test jet sizes..buy 38's and drill'm...I have done that for the later motorcraft jets. the pre-64 2100 carbs are tapped 1/4"-32 so you can use new holly jets in those carbs...

 

[dangerranger83]

I running the factory #50 jets. I need to hook the acclerator pump shut off thing to a vacuum and see if that helps a bit. When my truck is warm, it idles at 1000rpm and if I dont tap the gas when I go to stop it will idle at 1200-1300rpm.

 

[John Smith]

That's why i like

I running the factory #50 jets. I need to hook the acclerator pump shut off thing to a vacuum and see if that helps a bit. When my truck is warm, it idles at 1000rpm and if I dont tap the gas when I go to stop it will idle at 1200-1300rpm.

the older carbs, (2100's or no later than 72)..not as much added for "improvements"..I'm not sure when they started doing that on 2150's...but to get best mileage, you should be able to at least back off the accel pump adjust if desired..


but the engine isn't the only deal about mileage..(fat tires, gearing etc)..but it at least should be running as efficient as possible...which in pilot's language..."lean it out for best performance for altitude" which is what you must do as you fly to stretch your fuel..

..at least in an airplane you can adjust the mixture via vernier control (goggle it)..as per what your EGT is saying...

Now if we could just get an aircraft carb hooked up and and the EGT....instead of the HEGO..we would have something....

Has anyone ever mod'ed this 2.8 for aircraft use?....they use Corvair sixes...Oh, I 4got..we would need a radiator...of course airplanes started with radiators...

 

[John Smith]

I actually use a throttle ..

return spring in addition to the "sprung cable" on my F150 351W. It snaps back just right...I assume all of your idle circuits are doing their job...I know the "idle air" adjustments on my 2100 are active immediately 1/8 turn either way...you can really tell where optimum is..

this is what I'm using on my 351w

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/m...e-jetted-052-to-start-the-tuning-process.html

I running the factory #50 jets. I need to hook the acclerator pump shut off thing to a vacuum and see if that helps a bit. When my truck is warm, it idles at 1000rpm and if I dont tap the gas when I go to stop it will idle at 1200-1300rpm.