New clutch, can't shift into gears

[BroncoGurl]

Hey, guys. Got a '98 Ranger with a 3.0L and M5OD. I just finished putting a new clutch, slave cylinder and master cylinder into my truck. It shifts just fine when the engine is off, but when the engine is running I am unable to shift into any gear except 4th. Really weird.

I bled the system as shown in the videos in this thread (http://www.fordrangerforum.com/driv...help-clutch-throw-out-bearing-replacment.html) and the pedal has a good firm feel and with the inspection cover removed I can see the release bearing pushing against the pressure plate. I remember that I did put the clutch disc on facing the right way so pretty sure it's not that.

Any ideas to what the problem could be? I really don't want to have to take it apart again. Doing it by yourself is not that fun.

 

[stegomon]

defective slave i am guessing...had that happen to me

 

[stegomon]

wow that video is neat....can we put that in the tech pages?

 

[sfwjesse]

That is wicked good....wish i had found that when i did mine...took me 3 days of trying

 

[BlackBII]

It's possible that the slave is defective, but I'm going to put my money on it not being bled fully. Leaking any fluid from the bellhousing?

Here are some good posts..

Your master probably isn't bled thoroughly. You need to unbolt it from the firewall and from the clutch pedal, but leave the resovoir line connected. 'Tilt' the master so that it points 'up'. You want to make the hard line end the highest point, this will place the actuator rod pointing to the floor of your truck. Now, bleed it by pumping the rod by hand. It's tough, but it can be done.

The design of the master cylinder creates an air bubble trap, and tilting it towards the sky the only way to get the air bubbles to travel 'up' and into the line, down to the slave and out the bleeder. (aside from pull the entire thing and bench bleeding it, in which case, you essentially do the same thing.)

Also, the way it is positioned, air can get stuck in the 'top' portion, and cannot be bled out the normal way. You need to unbolt the master from the firewall, and tilt it 'up', so that the actuator rod points towards your floor board. Once you have it at this angle, pump it by hand. Its tough, but possible. Bleed it like this, as in this position, it enables any air stuck in the top of the master to get forced out through the line and slave.

They are tough to bleed because of the way the master is postioned....it is tilted slightly downwards, so air bubbles can get trapped in the upper portion of it. The trick is to unbolt it from the firewall, and unhook the rod from the pedal. You then tilt the master up, which makes the rod point to the floor of the truck. Bleed it like this, you have to pump it by hand, it's tough, but can be done.

And some insight from Allan...

The problem is people attempting to bleed it will get impatient and pump and pump and pump the pedal and that gains NOTHING.

When bleeding a clutch you've gotta move the pedal like a pair of turtles fornicating

S-L-O-W-L-Y otherwise all you do is stir the air into the fluid.

push the pedal down SLOWLY, open the bleeded, close the bleeder let the
pedal SNAP (just let your foot slip off the pedal and keep your shin out of the way)
then walk away... just walk away...

Go jerk off if you wanna pump something fast

Smoke a cigarette if you smoke

Have a Beer throw dirt clods at the neighbors dog...

but give it time for the biubbles to rise to the top.

And don't think what YOU are doing is important

the 1988-92 system WILL self bleed if you don't keep opening the damned bleeder screw.

as soon as you get ANY pedal feel at all or can release the clutch STOP and
take that bleeder wrench and put it back in your toolbox or throw it in a lake because from that point on it'll only cause you anger & frustration.


THE problem with the hydraulic clutch is that people THINK they are working on hydraulic brakes AND that they behave the same.... they do not.

AD

Man, feels like I am always repeating myself....

 

[BroncoGurl]

I really hope it's not a defective slave. I just might kill someone if I have to drop the tranny again. No leaks of any kind. Just checked now. I even fixed my rear main leak while I was in there. Hopefully it's just a bleeding issue then.

I followed those two videos exactly to bleed the system. I bled the master cylinder separately with the reservoir end of the cylinder up using a screwdriver to pump it 'til it was too hard to push anymore, but still had a small amount of play (like in the video). Then I installed the master cylinder onto the truck, hooked up the line to the slave and opened up the bleeder screw, letting it gravity bleed and go through a couple reservoirs of fluid. I didn't let the reservoir get too low to let any air in. Then I closed the bleeder screw and went to pump my pedal. The first couple pumps I felt nothing, but then it firmed up pretty good.

Anyways, should I try bleeding it again with the master cylinder disconnected from the firewall this time with the reservoir end up? Or wait for someone else to help me with what AllanD suggested with the pedal pump?

 

[BroncoGurl]

Ok, so I tried the pedal pump method and am now able to shift into gears, but it takes a good amount of pressure. I bled it several times using that method and even gravity bled it for a bit again and I still can't get it any better than how it is now. Maybe I should take it to a shop and let them vacuum bleed it? Do you think that method would be better for a stubborn hydraulic system?

 

[pcollins]

If you can get it into gear drive it. When i changed my slave, I opened the bleeder screw until fluid came out, let it drip for about 15 seconds, shut it, and drove it. Fully bled its self. Never had to touch the bleeder screw again.

 

[98Mazda4X4]

it could also be your pilot bearing i had the same thing to happen to my truck i couldn't put it in gear with my truck running but with it off i could put it in any gear i would lean torwards pilot bearing.

 

[BroncoGurl]

It is too hard to get it into gear to just drive it. 2nd gear grinds, and it requires A LOT of pressure to get it into 5th and reverse.

I had replaced the pilot bearing that was in the back of the crank. Slipped it onto the input shaft beforehand to make sure it was the right fit. There was not much left of the old pilot bearing except the outer race and I figured that might have been some of my problem with shifting before I took it apart.

Yesterday, I bought one of those vacuum bleeders and ran a couple reservoirs through it that way. No change so even though I bench bled the master cylinder I removed it from the firewall and put the reservoir end up and bled it some more. And still no change. I'm noticing now though that there is a squeal coming from the tranny and it get a little louder when I start pushing on the shifter into a gear.

 

[BlackBII]

Are you sure you have the bellhousing bolted up to the motor completely? No gaps or anything?

I've done that before, there was some wiring harness that got stuck between the bellhousing and the motor, leaving a small gap that went un noticed. I had the same problem with the clutch, and couldn't figure it out because I knew it had been bled fully. (This was not an RBV, but it's still a possibility)

Another dumb but sometimes possible problem, have you checked to make sure the floormat isn't high enough to limit the travel of the clutch pedal? I've had that one happen as well..

I'm going out on a limb here, as I can't think of anything else if it's bled fully. I know you checked but maybe you have the disc in backwards? Or maybe the slave is just weak.

How far does the slave travel when looking through the inspection hole?

As far as doing it by yourself, well, you just gotta start doing some more benchpress, so the tranny doesn't feel so heavy.

 

[BroncoGurl]

Thank you for all your suggestions. Checked carefully around the bellhousing and no gaps between the tranny and the engine. I only have the carpet in and no floor mats and as far as I can see nothing is getting in the way of the pedal. I'm pretty positive that I put the clutch disc on the right way 'cause I remember reading it as I was installing it and one side said 'Flywheel Side'. Looking through the inspection hole I visually compared it to my old clutch and it looks like it's on the right way. If it were on backwards the springs on the disc would be closer to the flywheel side and mine are closer to the pressure plate fingers. Not nearly touching of course.

It's hard to positively measure the travel of the slave through that little hole, but it looks like it's moving maybe 5/8"? Doesn't seem like much, but I don't know.

Considering I'm only 5'2" and about 110lbs I think it's gonna take A LOT of bench pressing before I'm able to lift something that weighs almost as much as me. lol

I was thinking also maybe the fluid might be an issue? I used Valvoline Mercon V, which says it's recommended for vehicles that use Dexron III/Mercon fluid. I've read that it takes about 4 quarts, but filling it up through the fill hole 'til it started running out was barely 3 quarts.

 

[Ranger Kip]

sounds like an issue that needs two things, beer and patients. 2 things I dont have at the moment haha

 

[BlackBII]

You used the correct fluid, that wont be a problem here. And, being able to get it into 4th, and no other gear makes it look like the clutch is not releasing all the way, because 4th gear is on a 1:1 ratio with the engine speed, so it's essentially 'synchronized', and with some of the engine's torque still going through the clutch, it's moving the transmissions gears just enough to get it into 4th, but also too much to prevent you from getting it into any other gear...

If it shifted through the gears before you changed everything, then we should be able eliminate the transmission itself as a variable.

You got a new master and a new clutch, what about the line? Are you using the original one? This was an odd occurance and I can't imagine you making the same mistake....but I had a friend who cut a hydraulic line and spliced it with some rubber hose. When he would push the clutch, the hose would expand and of course the slave wasn't getting 100% of its travel...

If you are 100% sure that there is no air in the system, the only thing I can think is that one of the replaced components is different than what was previously in there. For example, a slave cylinder that was physically shorter/smaller would sit further away from the pressure plate, and would limit the fingers' travel. Of course, I can't imagine this being an issue, but I have seen it before with replacement parts...

As much as it sucks to pull everything out, I would do so and compare your parts. I have seen one problem, on a Scion of all cars, where the fingers on the pressure plate had been 'flattened', essentially bent the wrong way, and so the travel was limited...

Also, have you checked to make sure there is no fluid leaking?

As far as the bench pressing, I'm 200lbs and can bench 320, so, it's entirely possible, although being of a different gender, there is a slight disadvantage on your end.

 

[pcollins]

It is entirely possible that you got a bad replacement slave to start with. It happened with my ranger. Wow was i pissed.