Need help right away! lawn tractor related...

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I know, wrong forum, but I really kinda need some answers within a few minutes if at all possible, after that it can be moved to the correct forum....

Anyway, I'm going to look at an older Craftsman lawn tractor here in a bit and the guy who has it says it will not start... claims that he replaced the starter switch but that power is not making it past the relay now. I'm assuming that it is possible that the starter switch was wired incorrectly and is the reason for no start.

He claims there is power to the relay for the starter, so my thought is to try taking a jumper lead from the battery and touch it to where the ignition switch gives power to the relay to see if indeed it is the switch that's not working right.... except I'm not sure if I need to tap my jumper off of the positive or negative side of the battery to do this....

If the relay itself proves bad (as in my lil jumper idea doesn't work), can anyone explain the trick for jumping the terminals of the relay to start the vehicle with a screwdriver?

It's a 12 hp, 6-speed tractor, btw.

I was also told that the starter seems to be malfunctioning.... anyone happen to know what it would cost to fix that while I already have your attention? Or where I could get parts to rebuild it?

 

[lil red]

umm, i dont think youll get enough power without the relay in there(i learned that the hard way with a triumph, cut up my arm trying to jump from the batery to the starter, wasnt fun) i would say look around for other old tractors, most are free or cheap, or find a store that sells tractors, atvs and such, they usually have parts/knowlage/or the ability to get parts

hope that helps, im usually good with the older ones, my cub is gonna be able to hit around 35 mph once i get off my ass and do it, and its gettin quad tires

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I'm not taking the relay out....

I'm sayin that the relays I"m used to seeing are like on my BIIs where there is two big posts, one for power from the battery and one out to the starter, and one lil post where the switch from the ignition adds power so that the relay makes the connection for the starter... I figured if the ignition switch is bad or wired improperly and the relay is good, I could just take a jumper wire from the correct side of the battery (and that is the question, do I need positive power or negative power to make the relay function), and touch it to that lil post to make the relay work.


Maybe I'm way off base here... I haven't ever worked on a tractor yet, but we need a free/cheap one and I thought this might be the ticket.

 

[Shran]

Occasionally I have had to start trucks with the screwdriver technique, you just short the lead from the battery to the small post that usually has a rubber push on boot with a wire coming out of it attached.

I had an old Sears riding mower that would do the same thing as you mentioned. I can't remember how exactly I did it, but it was with a screwdriver shorting the starter solenoid.

I will warn you now that if it's old finding parts can be a bitch. You can get them at Sears or try and find a similar tractor to steal them from. Fortunately Sears used mostly Briggs, Tec or Kohler motors on those so they're fairly common.

 

[smokey]

Just jump the relay the same as you do on the ranger,same type of relay is used on them. Or just jump from one side of the relay to other with a part of pliers or a short peice of heavy wire.
Startes on them are easy to fix normally the nylon gear just eats off. about 6 bucksfor a new gear.

 

[martin]

they are negative ground, like your truck so you need to use a positive terminal to supply the solenoid. As a worse case seniaro just put one jumper cable on the pos. side of the battery and jump to the starter directly, they do not pull an enourmous amount of juice. If you knew what motor was in it it might help.

 

[kunar]

they are negative ground, like your truck so you need to use a positive terminal to supply the solenoid. As a worse case seniaro just put one jumper cable on the pos. side of the battery and jump to the starter directly, they do not pull an enourmous amount of juice. If you knew what motor was in it it might help.

+1 on this advice. use jumper cables and jump from battery pos to the starter. if it starts, its in the wiring. the wiring on that tractor should be very simple. you could probably rip it all out and start from fresh and have things back together in an afternoon. wiring issues on a lawn tractor wouldnt worry me at all.

 

[Turbo-T]

A lot of times the problem is a Safety switch. I just sold a Toro rider that had 4 swtches that had to be made before it could be started.

 

[killaranger26]

i have to jump start my mud tractor all you do is put + terminal on starter sqrew and touch the - one to any bare metal and it should strt right up if not then the motor is fucked ps i do this about everyday

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Here is the info from the ad the guy has for the tractor that I responded to...

Craftsman 38" 6 Speed 12 Hp Riding Mower. Model 917.254551. Everything was running fine until the little gear on top of the start would just spin and not raise up to catch with the bigger gear. While this was happening the ignition swithc broke. I got a replacement ignition switch from craftsman and installed it. Now when the key is turned to start it nothing happens. The battery is one year old and is working fine, and sending the current but it's not making it past the relay thing that it connects to before getting to the starter. Please email with any questions.

I didn't end up making it down to look at it today like I had planned, going to try for tomorrow night. I have a hope that what all is wrong with it is easy and relatively inexpensive to fix because we have about an acre of grass that needs mowed right now an only a dinky push mower... plus I have a line on a plow for said tractor for $50....

From the way the ad is presented, I sense a bit of a lack of mechanical knowledge and thus have hope that the problems will not be overly difficult or expensive to fix.

I'd really like to have a bigger tractor, actually if I had my way I'd have a nice big diesel garden tractor, but for now something cheap that cuts grass faster and with less work than a push mower will do.

 

[kunar]

From the way the ad is presented, I sense a bit of a lack of mechanical knowledge and thus have hope that the problems will not be overly difficult or expensive to fix.

i dont think it would be that bad. its a briggs engine, and if there are issues with the starter, it should be a fairly simple thing o fix. i dont remember for sure but i think you can rebuild the bendix on one of those for about $10, it should just be a roll pin that holds it on. pop out the pin and pull everything off, swap the new parts back on. are you getting a decent deal on it?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

i dont think it would be that bad. its a briggs engine, and if there are issues with the starter, it should be a fairly simple thing o fix. i dont remember for sure but i think you can rebuild the bendix on one of those for about $10, it should just be a roll pin that holds it on. pop out the pin and pull everything off, swap the new parts back on. are you getting a decent deal on it?

That's good news then. I think I'm getting a decent deal on it, he's been trying to sell the thing for a couple weeks now and has dropped the price from about $200 down to half that. If it's in good shape I'd think it would be worth that, but I dunno... I had a deal on another older Craftsman tractor, 14 hp, IIRC, needed a mower deck, $25, but the day I was supposed to go pick it up the guy called an said he had someone stop an offer $100 for it so he sold it out from under me.

 

[shadetree]

Safety switches all over the place: clutch, seat, etc. The connectors have a habit of falling off. Have someone to help you with the seat and clutch, and any other safety switches you might have, and use your test light, put it on the start terminal of the relay, turn the ignition to start. If the light lights, your switches are ok. If it doesn't light, trace the wiring back to find your problem.

The relay grounds to the frame with the mounting bracket.
Make sure this connection is clean and solid. Same for the battery cables.

If all this works out, you can then put the test light on the starter side of the relay, turn to start. If you get a light, the relay is working and the starter is the problem. No light, replace relay.shady

 

[kunar]

Safety switches all over the place: clutch, seat, etc. They have a habit of falling off. Have someone to help you with the seat and clutch, and any other safety switches you might have, and use your test light, put it on the start terminal of the relay, turn the ignition to start. If the light lights, your switches are ok. If it doesn't light, trace the wiring back to find your problem.

The relay grounds to the frame with the mounting bracket. Make sure this connection is clean and solid. Same for the battery cables.shady

i wonder how many safety switches there are on that old of a tractor. i had a couple older sears mowers that only had a switch on the clutch pedal.

for $100, i'd say youre doing fine. you need to get it running though, and engage the blade drive and listen for bearing noises. the bearings in the deck would worry me the most. more than any wiring or starting issue.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

i wonder how many safety switches there are on that old of a tractor. i had a couple older sears mowers that only had a switch on the clutch pedal.

for $100, i'd say youre doing fine. you need to get it running though, and engage the blade drive and listen for bearing noises. the bearings in the deck would worry me the most. more than any wiring or starting issue.

Good point! I have a faint hope that I would be able to get it running without much trouble when I go look at it, because it would be significantly easier to get in the back of my truck if it runs.