My Ranger after Twenty Years

[Lefty]

I worked with a fella in the mid 80's who, soon as he got his truck payed off began looking for a new one.
I tried convincing him to enjoy his current one and save the money. No dice, he came in a few days later in a new truck, I said no more. less than 3 months later he got layed off

A sad but true story that happens to many,especially to those who get a new job. There's a lot of turnover in the work place. Many have a policy of last hired/first fired.

 

[Lefty]

alot of people where i work trade them in at 4-5 years of ownership. i normally never own something longer than 2-3 years because i would buy them super cheap and fix the little things and when i was bored, sell it and get something else that looked fun.

doesn;t work that way when you pay a crap load for it from a dealership

The real downside to driving old is the time required to repair and maintain. It takes patience and a certain degree of mindfulness. That's why we have The Ranger Station, I suppose, a great place for kindred spirits to be made more aware of their trucks, and even service them too.

 

[James Morse]

No rust on either of mine. Well, a little starting around the rear fenders on the '99, but the '97 is clean. I'm no stranger to rust, lived up north plenty. I remember getting rides to ski in "Greenie" which must have been like a 50's Ford, it was so rusty it had holes in the floorboards and sitting in the back seat you could watch the road go by underneath, which we thought was pretty cool, but I suppose it's not really very safe.
My dad sold an old T-bird, think it was, to a guy for $50. A couple weeks later the guy calls and says "I was driving along, and the engine fell right out the bottom". My dad (normally very laid back) replies "What do you want, for $50?"

 

[Shran]

My beater '88 is going to need some major floor repairs this summer. I found a quarter size hole about 5 years ago that has spread into a hole that is about a foot wide... I can see the front tire through it. Not really a big deal but getting splashed with slush and water is a slight problem. I put a piece of flattened ductwork under the vinyl flooring last winter and that helped a lot but I guess the rust has spread around that now too. I guess I need to start looking for a bigger piece of sheet metal that I can repurpose for a floor pan.

I just gotta keep it going for another year, two at the most until I get my house paid off. Planning on buying a Maverick at that time and keeping the beater around at the other property for dragging logs and stuff. It will be perfect for that.

 

[sgtsandman]

I generally try to keep vehicles as long as I can.

The exceptions were the ‘98 that I sold to a friend what I paid for it and the ‘99 CR-V. I was keeping the Ranger for my daughter but she had zero interest in it or driving for the longest time. It was a good truck but did not meet my needs.

The CR-V because my girlfriend is not longer capable of driving a stick. So, I sold it to another friend and bought the 2019.

Hopefully, the 2019 will be the last vehicle payment for a long time.

The rest of the vehicles I’ve owned were next owned by the junkyard or the dealership who either auctioned it off or sent it to the junkyard.

 

[James Morse]

You can't compare the price of a 20 yr old truck to prices new. First you have to multiply the old price by the inflation rate as stated by the gov't. Whatever my '97 cost in '97, I'd have to multiply by 1.87 to compare their MSRP today.
Inflation is a killer. Let's say I bought a truck for 10k and sold it later for 10k and said to myself, wow, I got my money back. No. That 10k isn't worth the same as the original 10k, again, you'd have to equalize them. In the last couple years inflation has probably done 15% so in real dollar terms, selling for what you paid, you still lost about 15% on it. To get what you paid you'd have to get 11.5 for it.

I'm not presenting trucks as an investment, they're not, they're a necessary expense. I'm just saying you have to be aware of inflation because it's not trivial and especially over long term it's massive.
I think there is some lower limit where a truck just won't really devalue, leaving inflation out of it. A good, running truck with no major issues, let's say it sells for 5k today as an example, in a few years it's probably still going to sell for 5k if it's kept up. Let's say you kept it for 5 years, and inflation over that period might be 120% these days. That means your selling price 5k is actually 4200 in original dollars you paid (it lost value, as we'd expect, but not tons).
Inflation historically averages 2.5% +/- but the last few years haven't been average. Just something to keep in mind when we talk about used prices. A big part of that is inflation, then you add on shortages, and the market was (is?) crazy.
The best no-risk investment you can make today is treasuries, about 5%, but guess what that still doesn't keep up with inflation so even with interest your money is still worth less every year.
When evaluating a project you always take into account inflation but you have to assume it for the future and if you are wrong you can be screwed.
It makes me almost want to finish my MBA from Syracuse U. I have two courses left which were paid for and I received incompletes in '92. In theory I could finish it, but why. At this point it'd be just for fun. And that wasn't a quickie degree either that was the whole ball of wax.
More on topic, let's say I had 30k and given a choice of a 2019 Ranger or a 1997-gen Ranger. If I spent, let's say, 10k on the old one, for something really good, I could put 20k into treasuries and in a year I have about 1,000 interest which buys me tires for the '97. And the '19 would probably need tires soon anyway.
Granted that's still an expense, but at least if I look at my account, the numbers aren't lower (even though their value is).
The '97 won't really devalue much if I take care of it. The 2019 will, and it doesn't have anything to offer over the '97 except maybe lockers which I could do if I really wanted to.
If you add up the payments (or loss of interest) on the 2019, and the higher insurance and taxes, it looks even worse for the 2019. Plus imo the '97 is better built. Whatever tech we have today was pretty much there by then (open to argument).
2019 would be a status symbol of sorts (2024 would be better). Has warranty, probably. I'd worry less about it breaking down, but, if the '97 is gone through and checked regularly there's no reason to think it not reliable. I've just never been so rich as to get a new vehicle but it's good other people do or we'd never have the used ones!
I went through this thought process when I went to the Ford place one time to try to get old records (had better luck here) and parked next to a 2019 for sale, and looked at the 2019 about 15 seconds and asked myself is it worth it to spend a huge chunk of cash for something essentially the same as what I have? Maybe not even as good? Plus it's used, so you never know what you're getting. For the gigantic difference, I can do a heck of a lot of work on the '97, as it needs it, or upgrades, and still be way ahead. Plus the '19 wasn't red or green. Forest green you mentioned is my other choice besides red but you just don't see it much.

 

[sgtsandman]

You can't compare the price of a 20 yr old truck to prices new. First you have to multiply the old price by the inflation rate as stated by the gov't. Whatever my '97 cost in '97, I'd have to multiply by 1.87 to compare their MSRP today.
Inflation is a killer. Let's say I bought a truck for 10k and sold it later for 10k and said to myself, wow, I got my money back. No. That 10k isn't worth the same as the original 10k, again, you'd have to equalize them. In the last couple years inflation has probably done 15% so in real dollar terms, selling for what you paid, you still lost about 15% on it. To get what you paid you'd have to get 11.5 for it.

I'm not presenting trucks as an investment, they're not, they're a necessary expense. I'm just saying you have to be aware of inflation because it's not trivial and especially over long term it's massive.
I think there is some lower limit where a truck just won't really devalue, leaving inflation out of it. A good, running truck with no major issues, let's say it sells for 5k today as an example, in a few years it's probably still going to sell for 5k if it's kept up. Let's say you kept it for 5 years, and inflation over that period might be 120% these days. That means your selling price 5k is actually 4200 in original dollars you paid (it lost value, as we'd expect, but not tons).
Inflation historically averages 2.5% +/- but the last few years haven't been average. Just something to keep in mind when we talk about used prices. A big part of that is inflation, then you add on shortages, and the market was (is?) crazy.
The best no-risk investment you can make today is treasuries, about 5%, but guess what that still doesn't keep up with inflation so even with interest your money is still worth less every year.
When evaluating a project you always take into account inflation but you have to assume it for the future and if you are wrong you can be screwed.
It makes me almost want to finish my MBA from Syracuse U. I have two courses left which were paid for and I received incompletes in '92. In theory I could finish it, but why. At this point it'd be just for fun. And that wasn't a quickie degree either that was the whole ball of wax.
More on topic, let's say I had 30k and given a choice of a 2019 Ranger or a 1997-gen Ranger. If I spent, let's say, 10k on the old one, for something really good, I could put 20k into treasuries and in a year I have about 1,000 interest which buys me tires for the '97. And the '19 would probably need tires soon anyway.
Granted that's still an expense, but at least if I look at my account, the numbers aren't lower (even though their value is).
The '97 won't really devalue much if I take care of it. The 2019 will, and it doesn't have anything to offer over the '97 except maybe lockers which I could do if I really wanted to.
If you add up the payments (or loss of interest) on the 2019, and the higher insurance and taxes, it looks even worse for the 2019. Plus imo the '97 is better built. Whatever tech we have today was pretty much there by then (open to argument).
2019 would be a status symbol of sorts (2024 would be better). Has warranty, probably. I'd worry less about it breaking down, but, if the '97 is gone through and checked regularly there's no reason to think it not reliable. I've just never been so rich as to get a new vehicle but it's good other people do or we'd never have the used ones!
I went through this thought process when I went to the Ford place one time to try to get old records (had better luck here) and parked next to a 2019 for sale, and looked at the 2019 about 15 seconds and asked myself is it worth it to spend a huge chunk of cash for something essentially the same as what I have? Maybe not even as good? Plus it's used, so you never know what you're getting. For the gigantic difference, I can do a heck of a lot of work on the '97, as it needs it, or upgrades, and still be way ahead. Plus the '19 wasn't red or green. Forest green you mentioned is my other choice besides red but you just don't see it much.

What you say is true. Buying used is generally the better value, if you have the cash. After so many years old, a bank won’t give you a loan and interest rates on personal loans are outrageous. At least with a vehicle loan the interest rates are low or zero, depending on the promotion.

The ‘98, was not a money making proposition. A friend needed a truck and I had one that was in excellent mechanical shape (once I had gone through it stem to stern). All told, I probably lost money on it but it was a fair price and it helped a friend.

The CR-V, it wasn’t meeting the need as a backup vehicle for both of us and the trailer was becoming too much for it to handle within in the certified limits of the vehicle. We needed something to meet the family needs and what we do. Me being in search and rescue, AWD only marginally cuts it as does the unibody construction.

If I had the cash, I would have looked for an older body on frame 4X4 with four doors but I didn’t. So, ate a brand new vehicle payment instead.

 

[Lefty]

Inflation is a factor but then again so is the price of brand new. Suppose you buy an old used truck for $5,000.00, then spend $15,000.00 in repairs and upgrades. You will have have an old but new truck for $20,000.00 all in. The engine might fail after 150,000 additional miles, but it still costs less than buying brand spanking new.

 

[sgtsandman]

Inflation is a factor but then again so is the price of brand new. Suppose you buy an old used truck for $5,000.00, then spend $15,000.00 in repairs and upgrades. You will have have an old but new truck for $20,000.00 all in. The engine might fail after 150,000 additional miles, but it still costs less than buying brand spanking new.

In some ways, an old, well maintained vehicle is superior to a new one. If I had, had the resources at the time, I would have went old and fixed whatever needed fixed.

I really wanted a body on frame, four door Explorer with 4X4. That would have fit the bill better than a Supercrew Ranger.

 

[JohnnyO]

Older Rangers are a fairly simple device, especially with a 3.0. As long as you can keep the rust from getting too bad the rest of it is pretty fixable and durable.

 

[Lefty]

Yes, indeed. That was the problem with my very first truck. It was just an old beater. It did its job and did it well, but it was never was any fun, never food for the soul. It never would have mattered to wash it or wax it. It would have certainly not have paid to paint it. Upgrades would have been a waste of time and money.

The one thing it did was provide for cheap transportation. They say that if you always buy new, you will spend about a quarter million more than if you buy used. All those years of driving something paid for had saved me a lot of money, but little else.

Fixing up cars has always been a passion of mine. I drove an MGB which was totally thrashed out. Then I restored it, even shoe horned a 2.8 liter Ford inside the engine bay. I drove it for 17 years.

Passion is really the only thing for me. It's not just a passing whimsey either. I work with those who have been recently released from prison. They lead a joyless life. i have found that fixing up old cars and trucks can sometimes be a joy for them, that solving car troubles sometimes is the very best therapy for solving deeper troubles.

And so, I come here with oddball stories like the Rattle Can Ranger. fixing the broken, the FUBAR, especially the things that seem to be beyond all repair. It is not for everyone, but at least for me, it is food for the soul.

We don't do too much in the winter time. But now that spring has finally come, The Boyz and I are busy making plans: more work on our Rangers, a few body and fender and paint repairs on an old Chevy, a new set of shocks for somebody else. The Boyz don't have garages, so they come by often just to wash and wax. And sometimes we make a trip to the Upull yard, a wonderful time to talk.

Many of these guys know a thing or two about turning wrenches. They know more than me. Helping me helps them too. One guy even got his first job in mechanics. It's win-win all around. Mine is not a life for everyone, but it is most certainly fun.

Passion explains why I spent so much time and money fabricating the grill. It made no sense at all; didn't improve the performance one bit. I did it because I thought it looked better that way, perhaps even more Ford like. Few people even notice, except a few "car people." Not long ago I wheeled it into the dealership to have something fixed. A couple mechanics noticed it right away. The shop foreman said, "This is the nicest old Ranger in the Twin Cities. Funny. I'm like so many members here. I don't really see it as old.

 

[Blmpkn]

Passion explains why I spent so much time and money fabricating the grill. It made no sense at all; didn't improve the performance one bit. I did it because I thought it looked better that way, perhaps even more Ford like. Few people even notice, except a few "car people." Not long ago I wheeled it into the dealership to have something fixed. A couple mechanics noticed it right away. The shop foreman said, "This is the nicest old Ranger in the Twin Cities. Funny. I'm like so many members here. I don't really see it as old.

I forgot you made that grille youself.. awesome.

 

[oldgeek]

Had an uncle that 'did the math' and that was the reason he would buy vehicles from the salvage yard. It was great entertainment to see my dad's irritation at his brother when his vehicle would break down. Now I'm talking many decades ago when a break down on a newer vehicle was kind of common. It is a great memory when Uncle's family and ours went on a trip together and Uncle's great amusement, sitting in his car, while dad's newer car was on the side of the road needing a repair.

 

[James Morse]

Don't forget though if you do work yourself, when it's possible, you save a ton on labor. For a lot of the things I've done, parts costs were the smallest part of it. That's not always true, but you can have situations where the part is $20 or something like that but if you pay somebody to do it all of a sudden it's a $100 job or more. My dad used to say "If I do it myself instead of paying someone else, that's just like I'm paying myself". Sounds funny, but, it's true.
But it's time lost and the older you get you find out that's running out. If it's a project, or you enjoy it, or it's a diversion from the mudane, that's time well spent. Let's face it though, not all jobs (fixing trucks) are fun. There can be other frustrations like difficulty finding certain parts. All those things have to be balanced against paying more for a new or late model used. It just depends how a person values their time versus the money they have to spend. So if you had unlimited money, you'd always buy new, because you simply wouldn't care about the costs. The other end of the scale, and I've been there several times, is, little or no money, but time to spare. Then it's a good fit to just get something running and everything working on it and you have a daily driver dependable even though maybe not what you'd get if you were rich, but there's a sense of accomplishment, or satisfaction in solving a problem. That has no monetary value but certainly it has worth.

At least older trucks are broken in. I said to my other half about her 263k Lexus, if there were any defects in the manufacture probably they have been found by now.

I'll tell you one thing that kind of burns me. Taxes. If I take SS and work, it's crazy. As self-employed I'm paying double SS tax to begin with so that's a little over 15% of net. I expect that, and some years are losses, so no tax. But check this: at the point where I would net enough to get taxed on the SS payments (haven't taken it yet), I'd also be exceeding the standard deduction so I'd get hit with it basically all at once and paying 50% marginal tax rate. That's a disincentive to working. If I have to make 40 net I'd have to be grossing 60 at least and take home would be 20. It doesn't make sense. And here's the thing - for an economy to work you have to have money flowing in it, and if it were more attractive tax-wise for people to work and collect SS at the same time, it would benefit the economy because they'd be spending more money.

So just in rough terms, if I had to make $120 net before taxes to get $60 out of it, then it's a lot more likely I'm going to spend an hour working on my truck rather than working for money because even in the best of situations I never made tons per hour self-employed. It's really a quite sudden jump. That should be changed. They are limiting you to not a lot more than poverty level, these days. The limit should at least be the median income imo.

Your grill looks just like an Explorer grill I saw an hour ago. I like it.

 

[sgtsandman]

Everything breaks, especially if you don’t maintain it. Pay me now or pay me later. If you wait for your brakes to wear down to the squealers and don’t do any preventative maintenance in between, the cost of dealing with stuck slider pins (if you are lucky) is going to be tacked on to the regular brake job. If you are unlucky, probably new rotors thrown into the mix. And if you’re really unlucky, new caliper brackets and maybe caliper because they can’t get the $&@@ pins out!

Same goes with most anything else on a vehicle. And small problems become big problems if ignored.

You’re still going to have the odd break that preventative maintenance can’t detect or fix but the chances are greatly reduced.