my personal v8 swap thread!

[nesralyrrej]

whats up all, finishing my 351w swap in my bronco, and now have a 302 without a home.. so im planning the obvious v8 swap. ive been through these forums for literal years getting prepared but i figure it makes sense to collate my information and questions in one spot!

my goals are simply a 5 speed 302 4x4 ranger, that (hopefully) passes emissions

so the engine is a 95 mustang 302 with a cam swapped, and the accessories from the broncos 302, i have both the mustang harness, the bronco harness, and both ecu's, the bronco was auto the mustang was manual, it seems the best course to use the mustangs harness, ecu, and intake but keep the truck cam, as the intkae is lower and the ecu isnt looking for an automatic trans..

the ranger is a 4.0 swapped supercharged 90. (supercharger engine and trans will likely be for sale!)

my my main questions are, what are yall doing for exhaust/ emissions? i live in Colorado and our emissions program is getting tougher and tougher. are yall doing a y pipe to duals? side exit? true duals?

i have an explorer d35 and 8.8, and the strong tcase..

anyone have a picture of their v8 with a 4.0 rad installed?

lastly, are you guys retaining the factory ecu location or is that more of a put it where it reaches kind of thing?

 

[JoshT]

You don;t give any details about the bronco that it came from, but I think of a few general notes on swap.

1) Clearance... Ranger has a very tight engine bay, especially those early models. A truck front acessory package is not a good match, and to my knowledge the Broncos used the same acessory package as the trucks. Mustang or Explorer acessory package would be a much better fit.

2) Emissions... Nearly every state that is going to test and inspect for emissions is going to require an engine of the same year or newer, AND all emissions controls for that engine. (or equivalent replacement) If you are using a 95 Mustang engine, you'll need 95 Mustang EFI system, EGR, cats, etc... Alternatively you could say that it is a Bronco engine assuming that the Bronco is 90 or newer, but still have to have Bronco's emissions and efi equipment. Basically shouldn't matter what is after the cats as that is not part of emissions controls, but can not state that for a fact.

3) Being 4wd you are going to be very limited on header choices. Look around what people have done, but you will need to clear the 4wd components and have provisions for what ever EGR setup the Mustang is running. The 94-95 factory mustang manifolds are not terrible, so you may want to start there, then have a local exhaust shop build out for your down pipes, cats, etc. As mentioned above to ensure emissions compliance for current as well as future testing, you'll need for the exhaust and emissions components to match the donor vehicle as much as possible back through the rear cats. There is no emissions requirement that the banks be tied together at or after the cats, run single or dual as you like from the cat back. That said, I'll admit to having lost the rears on my 99 swap due to limitastions on space and routing (lowered AWD), but I am in a non-testing area.

4) Is the change from supercharged 4.0L to NA 5.0L really going to be worth the time and money invested? Your truck, do your thing. I don't know how the OHV responds to firced induction, but if my 99 had been a SOHC I'd have installed a Moddbox supercharger kit instead of the 5.0L swap. In fact I've been tempted to hunt down a supercharger and stash parts away for dad's 2002 SOHC just in case.

 

[mikkelstuff]

Be aware that Colorado emissions forbids older engines into newer trucks. So, for example, I'm not permitted any 5.0L in my 2002 Ranger since Ford stopped making the 5.0L prior to 2002.

A 1995 302 can go in a 1990 Ranger if I read correctly what you have. Seems I was told Colorado emissions needs to approve the swap.

I'd love it though if you can get away with this.

 

[nesralyrrej]

the bronco is a ‘93 so Colorado would allow it, there’s a few work arounds, the supercharged 4.0 is pretty peppy but definitely slower than I would like.. I was thinking a small blower on the 302 maybe just to help it with the altitude haha

I could be expecting too much from the 4.0 since I have a 351 swapped turbo mustang and it’s actually fast.

I get the emissions components of the swap but was wondering if anyone has passed with a swap in Colorado, was asking about Exhuast for looks clearance and sound mostly!

I’m unsure if the swap will be worth it in the end, buuut sometimes when you get something stuck in your head it’s just gotta get done, ya know?

 

[JoshT]

People get swaps approved in California, surely you can get one signed off in Colorado. You'll have to figure out what hoops you have to jump through to meet your emissions and inspection requirements. I can;t point you to anyone specifically passing a swap in Colorado, but if you built to what should pass in CA it should pass in CO as well.

Sounds like you are set on using the engine you have. What I'd do if I were doing your swap. Find a donor Explorer, either complete and cheap, or in the junkyard. Pull the acessory drive from it and swap onto your engine. You'll also need the Explorer water pump because its shorter. Use the Mustang's EFI system. As you mentioned it is already setup for a manual transmission. It's also arguably the better functioning, more efficient, and better performance of the two. It wasn't uncommon for truck guys to swap from their speed density EFI system to the Mustang's Mass Air EFI system. Mass air is also more friendly to modifications (intake, headers, camshafts, etc) without custom tuning.

Another thing to consider is firing oder. 5.0Ls used two different ones, a standard firing order, and an HO that is the same as the 351w. Do some checking to make sure that your camshaft's firing order is compatible with the EFI system you plan to use. It's probably as simple as matching the plug wires on the distributor to the camshaft firing order, but I have no experience to draw from.

Use the Mustang's manifolds, or a direct swap in shorty header made for the Mustang and works with it's factory down pipes. It's my understanding that the 94/95 Mustangs really had more of a factory header that were pretty dang good outside of a heavily built engine. That'll give you headers/manifolds that work around your 4x4 stuff, but might still require a littleframe clearancing on the passenger side. Have the rest of the exhaust built by a local shop as mentioned above, a good shop will have some idea of what is required to make emissions pass in your area because they have to deal with it for repairs.

I say a good shop, because some only know how to weld a system to gether with no idea of legalities. I ran into that here. We don't emission test in my area, but I wanted to stay 50 state emissions legal. I mostly accomplished that, would have to change a couple of things (camshaft, tune, headers, and install rear cats) but the high end custom shop was no help. I went in telling him that I wanted to retain cats and keep the swap legal in emissions testing areas. He straight up said don't bother, its swapped, won't be legal anywhere. Even though he's the top shop recommended for custom exhaust fab in the area, including award winning hotrods, that line alone was enough to know I wasn't using him. Saying that there was no room to fit them and throwing out a $1600 base price without looking under the truck was the second strike.

Ofcourse some can;t even weld a system together very good. Shop I ended up using didn't help any with the emissions end of stuff, but again they don't test here. I installed the forward part of the system myself by ordering replacement magnaflow catpipes, then took it to them for the mufflers and tailpipes. I wanted dual with crossover, over the axle, and out the back. Two weeks later they called back saying no room to go to rear. I didn't argue it is a lowered 4x4 (extra lowered because I wanted ample clearance later) with a big spare tire back there, and I was ready for the truck back. Had them go dual out the side infront of the tire. An additional week or two later, we finally got it back home and basically had to cut everything they did back apart and adjust all of it. All I really got from them was two mufflers and a couple of bent pipes. Still not a fan of the exit location, but it works. After that experience I'll tackle my own in the future. At some point after I finalize the suspension and have a lift (vehicle, not suspension), I'll be building my own out the back like I originally wanted.

I digress, mostly saying shop around for a good exhaust shop that knows their stuff when it comes to Colorado's emissions testing. They can help you a lot making things right for testing and pointing you to a friendly testing station.



Hope I didn't wonder to much or make too many mistakes with this, it is 1am here. I should have been alseep hours ago.

 

[I support common sense]

Be aware that Colorado emissions forbids older engines into newer trucks. So, for example, I'm not permitted any 5.0L in my 2002 Ranger since Ford stopped making the 5.0L prior to 2002.

Sorry, I realize I’m off topic but the freedom screaming side of me just wouldn’t let me skip over this. Call your state rep and see if you can have it changed. I’m one hundred percent serious. It is sometimes literally that simple. It’ll take a few weeks at least or even a couple years but it is doable. That state rep works for you! Its not politics; it’s government working for the people as it should be.

Anyway neat idea trying to swap in a v8. Literally anything is possible depending on the tools available and machining experience.

 

[JoshT]

Call your state rep and see if you can have it changed. I’m one hundred percent serious. It is sometimes literally that simple. It’ll take a few weeks at least or even a couple years but it is doable. That state rep works for you! Its not politics; it’s government working for the people as it should be.

I'm about 99.995% positive that is part of federal emissions law, not state law. Most that a state representative would be able to do it fight the state's inspection and testing requirements.

Basic laws concerning emissions requirements and criteria are set at a federal level, but they do not establish any inspection or testing requirements. While federal laws they do not establish reoccouring testing/inspection requirements, and federal enforcement agencies wouldn't have the means to enact them if they did, they can still spot check and enforce those requirements. That's where you get the EPA cracking down on diesel tuning shops like they did a few years ago, that was one example of many.

States have the option to build on top of existing federal requirements, like California has done, and/or enact requirements for testing and inspection.

To fight federal emissions standards, you're going up against the EPA and all the tree hugging lobbiests in the country. Definitely worth voicing your opinion to your US senators and representatives, but I wouldn't expect it to get very far. I think best we can hope for there is reigning in agency over-reach, which is definitely happening at EPA as evidenced by the way they have attempted to crack down on the racing and aftermarket industry. Also avoiding creating unobtanible deadlines and like how they were wanting to be all electric by 2035 (I remember when they were saying this year), and rediculous standards that are killing working vehicles and classics. The ULSD requirements have played hell on perfectly good working diesel engines that are still in service and not designed for it, the old stuff is still availble at some pumps for ag usage, but hefty fine if you're caught running in a street vehicle. Changes in gasoline (IE: ethanol) and oil products (zinc and other detergents) are making the modern and commonly available fluids bad for older and classic vehicles. You can still buy non ethanol gasoline, and oils with ZDDP addative (for flat tappet cams and older bearings), but they are harder to find and can carry a hefty premium.



EDIT: I don't want to turn this political, but the thought just occoured to me. Given the curent state of the nation and the hatred for anything Elon Musk touches, this might be the easiest time in the last 40 (or next 40) years to fight against the restrictive EV and EPA policies that have been proposed. All you really need to do is be a conservative, publically and vocally fight for those policies to be put into place, and point out how much Musk supports them and works towards them. Those lobbiests will probably turn coat so fast it'll make your head spin.

 

[I support common sense]

I'm about 99.995% positive that is part of federal emissions law, not state law. Most that a state representative would be able to do it fight the state's inspection and testing requirements.

Basic laws concerning emissions requirements and criteria are set at a federal level, but they do not establish any inspection or testing requirements. While federal laws they do not establish reoccouring testing/inspection requirements, and federal enforcement agencies wouldn't have the means to enact them if they did, they can still spot check and enforce those requirements. That's where you get the EPA cracking down on diesel tuning shops like they did a few years ago, that was one example of many.

States have the option to build on top of existing federal requirements, like California has done, and/or enact requirements for testing and inspection.

To fight federal emissions standards, you're going up against the EPA and all the tree hugging lobbiests in the country. Definitely worth voicing your opinion to your US senators and representatives, but I wouldn't expect it to get very far. I think best we can hope for there is reigning in agency over-reach, which is definitely happening at EPA as evidenced by the way they have attempted to crack down on the racing and aftermarket industry. Also avoiding creating unobtanible deadlines and like how they were wanting to be all electric by 2035 (I remember when they were saying this year), and rediculous standards that are killing working vehicles and classics. The ULSD requirements have played hell on perfectly good working diesel engines that are still in service and not designed for it, the old stuff is still availble at some pumps for ag usage, but hefty fine if you're caught running in a street vehicle. Changes in gasoline (IE: ethanol) and oil products (zinc and other detergents) are making the modern and commonly available fluids bad for older and classic vehicles. You can still buy non ethanol gasoline, and oils with ZDDP addative (for flat tappet cams and older bearings), but they are harder to find and can carry a hefty premium.



EDIT: I don't want to turn this political, but the thought just occoured to me. Given the curent state of the nation and the hatred for anything Elon Musk touches, this might be the easiest time in the last 40 (or next 40) years to fight against the restrictive EV and EPA policies that have been proposed. All you really need to do is be a conservative, publically and vocally fight for those policies to be put into place, and point out how much Musk supports them and works towards them. Those lobbiests will probably turn coat so fast it'll make your head spin.

I realize I’m hijacking the thread, but just thought I would throw out there that this does not exist in TN. All new vehicles still have to meet federal specs, but older have no limitations that I know of. I could remove the cats and be just fine, there aren’t vehicle inspections in Tennessee. Therefore if we can do it in TN you can do it in California. Assuming you can get your laws and regulations reversed, which will not happen for at least a few hundred generations.

I’ll stop derailing the thread, however I’m always up for a good political or non political discussion.

 

[SenorNoob]

Tampering with federal emission components will absolutely get you in trouble in TN. It's just that without inspections it's much harder to get caught.

 

[nesralyrrej]

People get swaps approved in California, surely you can get one signed off in Colorado. You'll have to figure out what hoops you have to jump through to meet your emissions and inspection requirements. I can;t point you to anyone specifically passing a swap in Colorado, but if you built to what should pass in CA it should pass in CO as well.

Sounds like you are set on using the engine you have. What I'd do if I were doing your swap. Find a donor Explorer, either complete and cheap, or in the junkyard. Pull the acessory drive from it and swap onto your engine. You'll also need the Explorer water pump because its shorter. Use the Mustang's EFI system. As you mentioned it is already setup for a manual transmission. It's also arguably the better functioning, more efficient, and better performance of the two. It wasn't uncommon for truck guys to swap from their speed density EFI system to the Mustang's Mass Air EFI system. Mass air is also more friendly to modifications (intake, headers, camshafts, etc) without custom tuning.

Another thing to consider is firing oder. 5.0Ls used two different ones, a standard firing order, and an HO that is the same as the 351w. Do some checking to make sure that your camshaft's firing order is compatible with the EFI system you plan to use. It's probably as simple as matching the plug wires on the distributor to the camshaft firing order, but I have no experience to draw from.

Use the Mustang's manifolds, or a direct swap in shorty header made for the Mustang and works with it's factory down pipes. It's my understanding that the 94/95 Mustangs really had more of a factory header that were pretty dang good outside of a heavily built engine. That'll give you headers/manifolds that work around your 4x4 stuff, but might still require a littleframe clearancing on the passenger side. Have the rest of the exhaust built by a local shop as mentioned above, a good shop will have some idea of what is required to make emissions pass in your area because they have to deal with it for repairs.

I say a good shop, because some only know how to weld a system to gether with no idea of legalities. I ran into that here. We don't emission test in my area, but I wanted to stay 50 state emissions legal. I mostly accomplished that, would have to change a couple of things (camshaft, tune, headers, and install rear cats) but the high end custom shop was no help. I went in telling him that I wanted to retain cats and keep the swap legal in emissions testing areas. He straight up said don't bother, its swapped, won't be legal anywhere. Even though he's the top shop recommended for custom exhaust fab in the area, including award winning hotrods, that line alone was enough to know I wasn't using him. Saying that there was no room to fit them and throwing out a $1600 base price without looking under the truck was the second strike.

Ofcourse some can;t even weld a system together very good. Shop I ended up using didn't help any with the emissions end of stuff, but again they don't test here. I installed the forward part of the system myself by ordering replacement magnaflow catpipes, then took it to them for the mufflers and tailpipes. I wanted dual with crossover, over the axle, and out the back. Two weeks later they called back saying no room to go to rear. I didn't argue it is a lowered 4x4 (extra lowered because I wanted ample clearance later) with a big spare tire back there, and I was ready for the truck back. Had them go dual out the side infront of the tire. An additional week or two later, we finally got it back home and basically had to cut everything they did back apart and adjust all of it. All I really got from them was two mufflers and a couple of bent pipes. Still not a fan of the exit location, but it works. After that experience I'll tackle my own in the future. At some point after I finalize the suspension and have a lift (vehicle, not suspension), I'll be building my own out the back like I originally wanted.

I digress, mostly saying shop around for a good exhaust shop that knows their stuff when it comes to Colorado's emissions testing. They can help you a lot making things right for testing and pointing you to a friendly testing station.



Hope I didn't wonder to much or make too many mistakes with this, it is 1am here. I should have been alseep hours ago.

Im looking at the yards near me for some explorer front dress as it is more compact!

the firing order is an non issue, this has the ho firing order due to the aftermarket cam

good to know the mustang manifolds will fit fairly well!

i have a really good exhaust shop and i can also weld myself, im wondering if i can use the stock 302 bronco cats, with the mustang manifolds and have a winning combo, for emissions lol

as for the trying to fight emissions laws, its a federal law, i believe its bs personally but dont think a simple colorado diesel mechanic would make a huge difference.

 

[I support common sense]

What are you using for a transmission? I’ve been told an m50d-r2 will not fit in a ranger super cab or not. Granted anything can be done with a welder, plasma cutter, and some steel.

 

[nesralyrrej]

i believe the m5od r2 is the only 4x4 trans that will fit, without significant modification, and thats what i was planning on using