My idea of redneck engineering...

[AllanD]

After having several header gaskets develop leaks
(I get about a year out of a header gasket on my 4.0)
I looked with an evil eye at another Fel-Pro style stamped
perforated steel/composit gasket.

And I won't even consider using a laminated composit gasket
(they are worse)

and having less than trust of the later OHV factory embossed
two layer stainless steel gasket...

Well to make a long story short I decided to go old school...
And I mean really old school

I decided to make some COPPER header gaskets.

Copper in it's dead soft annealed form is VERY comformal
and will fill in gaps quite well.
Also being relatively corrosion resistant it's a durable material
(it ain't gonna rust out or burn out)

That begins the story of frustration... anyone tried to find any .045" thick copper sheet lately?

After WEEKS of asking everybody I could think of AND
everybody each person I asked could think of (and so on)
I finally got annoyed and went digging around my own garage
and my eyes fastened upon a 5' length of USED copper drain pipe...

Ignoring the old insanity of using copper for drains
(and once as an expedient for unobtainable pipes having made a copper exhaust system for an old pontiac I once had, Hey, don't look at me funny the phucker never rusted out

Anyway realizing that copper is easily annealed and is very workable when soft I cut off a 14" piece with a hack saw then split it lengtwise with my sawsall (the sawsall was still charging when I made the first cut)

Then I put the cut and split (down one side) piece of pipe INSIDE my coal stove and went and took a shower.

making a long story short I know have a 14"x7" piece of 0.045 copper sheet just waiting for me to trace it and cut my header gaskets out of it...

Getting it flat was rediculously easy Pried the cut open with my fireplace tongs then rolled it flat with a piece of galvanized pipe against the top of my plate steel stove....

Though it was just a bit more involved I heated it twice more to keep it workable....

I think when I'm done I'm going to make a Y-pipe to Cat gasket, that one pisses me off about every 18months...

AD

 

[Downey]

wow have fun cutting that shit out you couldnt find copper gaskets and maybe some new head bolts

 

[AllanD]

Sorry, I made a typo it's headER gaskets NOT "head gaskets" I'm making.

My history with the 2.9 and the 4.0 has been one of perpetually chasing
exhaust leaks. I'm sick of it...

I figuire copper gaskets will need to be made ONCE and if I even need
to disassemble anything I can anneal them and use them over...


AD

 

[Captain Ledd]

HA! I read "head gaskets" the first time through as well. I was thinking "ya know, I really have no experience or background to rain on someone like AllanD's parade, but I honestly don't think that will work". Not to mention how huge of a pipe that would have to be to cover the head lol.

I think it will work, and am curious to see how it turns out.

I'm liking the idea about the y-pipe to Cat gasket.

 

[Nhaz]

I once had a 1972 set of headers/pipes FOR a 1972 CB750 honda motorcycle. TO say the least. You could NOT get parts for internal flame suppressor and muffler part of the pipes.

By the time I was done it was mostly brass weighed twice as much as I started. And one of the strangest sounding pipes I've ever heard. But it did function. And the flames on downshift were reduced to only 6 inches . Instead of 2 feet when I started.

 

[mini274]

have you tried using copper seal gasket maker (its an RVT dont know if u have ever seen it but it has copper in it and its especially for exhaust leaks) ive used it on homemade headers before wit composite gaskets just put it on the head and the header with the gasket in between with the header on a flat piece of marble had 1/16 wobble but with copper seal it never leaked just a thought but you have probably already tried it

 

[CopyKat]

Actually right now I'm using the stock perforated steel ones on my hedman headers and they are lasting so far. It took some time, and roof tar to get the compressed paper ones that hedman sends with the header kits to work. I went through 3 sets to get mine to seal somewhat.

My big problem was sealing at the collector as the old hedmans I have don't have the ball socket end. I made an internal sleave for mine. so now they are sealed good.

Good luck with the gasket making. Going to have alot of dremel Hours into them. Better hope they work.

 

[AllanD]

I've got little faith in anything RTV based on exhaust components.

a copper gasket will work, but I am going to give my headers a small
dose of belt sander before I put it all back together to grind down
what little bumps there are at the welds.

My headers are Borla, so they were pretty good, but every time
I've gone to look at them the light was bad and I was kinda rushed, so...

I already long ago got rid of the factory bolts that hold the cat to the Y-pipe.

My bolts are made of Monel and I used stainless steel nuts
18-8 stainless and Monel won't friction weld themselves together....

ever...


...but I smear them with Nickel Never-seeze anyway... just to be sure...

Now to get to fastenal and order some 5/16" coarse thread 12-point head capscrews.

Why you ask? because at the time I was helicoiling the manifold flanges on my cylinder heads I have a gallon can full of 5/16-18 helicoils and I would have had to order 8mm x 1.25 helicoils (the stock thread) frankly I find it easier to get ENGLISH threaded bolts in exactly the length I want than metric ones.

Good luck with the gasket making. Going to have alot of dremel Hours into them. Better hope they work.

Dremel? You are kidding, right?

0.045" copper in it's annealed state doesn't even justify using sheet metal shears ("tin snips") the bolt holes I'll make with
a piece of 3/8" tube sharpened with a countersink to a tubular edge then use it as a hammer driven hole punch.

the general shaping with tin snips or a good pair of scissors
and the the detail wirk with a stanley knife.

If it starts to fight me it goes back into the fire to soften it
again... the neat thing about copper is if you heat it in a fire it stays sft when you cool it, you can even cool it rapidly in cold water and it doesn't get hard.

Let it sit for several years and it'll slowly age harden.
subject it to vibration even sharing a shelf with a stereo speaker
and it'll work harden nearly to brittleness.

a ittle heat and it goes right back to soft.

When hot it's like working with lead flashing.

And if the copper doesn't seal it I have some lead flashing I'll try next.

I doubt my manifold flanges will ever get hot enough to melt the lead I was just concerned that gas errosion of the exposed inner part of the gasket would release enough lead to "poison" the HEGO sensors...

BUT HEGO sensors can be "Cleaned" by heating them until they glow and holding them at that tempo for a couple minutes with a propane torch (the lead literally boils off the sensor probe)

AD

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Just wondering how your header gaskets worked? I came across some 1.5" copper tube. Also is there a factory tube header for a 4.0l?
Thanks,

Richard

 

[gwaii]

i bet they worked great-that's true old school.

and as for the 'head' gasket typo,i made some copper head gaskets for a six cylinder diesel in a boat a little while back.it was a direct replacement for the original.i'm sure if someone wanted to try it they would worl on a 4.0.

copper sheet in smaller quantitys can be bought from 'metal supermarkets'-they ship,check their website.

 

[strvger]

had an exhaust header problem on an old truck i used to have. took it off, cleaned it up, and used Marine-Tex epoxy on it and bolted it back up. never had another problem with it for 2 more years til i sold it.

 

[Jason]

They sell copper gaskets at the advance near my house.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I know for headgaskets everything has to be as close to perfect as it can get to get a seal. Exhaust wouldn't see near the pressure, but still...

People run them for tractor pulling when they get tired of blowing out the normal replacement headgaskets.

Another thing too, I have heard the headers that use a single plate that goes against the head are a PITA to get to seal and stay sealed. One trick I have heard of is to cut between the ports so each pipe can contour more to the head.