Modding pivot drops, need opinions

[The_Dealer]

Hey guys, as some of u know, I'm having problems getting my front end alligned with the new 4" coils. The driversside camber will align but the passenger won't. I don't really understand it. Before the lift coils I had around 3.5 to 4" of lift(but the stock springs were sagged out. I had lowered coil buckets and spacers) but everything aligned just fine. Anyways my passenger side camber won't come close, even with 3.25 degree camber bushings and 2.5" pivot drops. So here's what I have on the passenger side

Ok so u see those two horizontal "tabs" that keep the eccentric cam from moving? I'm thinking of grinding those off. Then enlarging the oval eccentric bolt hole farther down, then welding two new "tabs" so keep the cam bolts from moving up or down. Then I can fine tune with the camber bushing. What do u guys think? Safe? I would like to keep from having to buy new drops when there's plenty of material under where the tabs are now. Anyone have a better idea? Its at max neg right now and still about a degree of.

 

[4x4junkie]

Not sure I understand the "lowered buckets"... You got 4" lift before by using stock coils with lowered buckets & spacers? Did you put the buckets back to stock before putting the lift coils in?

Is the truck sitting level side-side? (not leaning at all)?

Some pics of your whole setup might help here.

 

[The_Dealer]

Ill get some pics tomorrow after work. I put my coil buckets back to stock when I put the 4" springs in. Basicallymy combo I had was about 4" lift, but the stock coils were sagged out. It doesn't lean side to side or anything, it sits level. They can align the camber on the drivers side, but it won't get. Close on the passenger side. Everything is set to the most negative, and I told them to match that on the drivers til I can figure something out. So I'm thinking of grinding the tabs off both sides of the passenger drop bracket. Enlarging the oval cam eccentric hole to go down a little more, then welding new tabs farther down so the cam bolds won't move up or down when adjusting.I should be able to get it alignable like that. Is this a good idea? I would like to keep my 2.5" drops if possible. I don't understand it. Aligned before but sits about 1.5" higher then the lowered buckets and spacers. I'm still trying to figure out why I have so much adjustability in the drivers side but not the passenger side.. Both sides the camber bushings are installed right. Any ideas 4x4junkie?

 

[4x4junkie]

I wouldn't start hacking up your brackets... There's another issue at work here.

Somethings either bent somewhere, or ?

Without pics I couldn't really guess what it is though other than you have a bent beam maybe.

Are both your camber bushings adjusted the same or real close?

 

[legoms013]

I'm a little confused on what his setup is now. It sounds like he is using 4" coils with 2.5" drop brackets, and if thats the case he needs the 4" drop brackets (and maybe a few washers). I could be wrong though

 

[4x4junkie]

That still wouldn't account for the difference between the two sides he's claiming, so I'm not sure what's happening. Besides a 1.5" disparity like that shouldn't be an issue (no different than leveling coils or spacers & stock brackets).

 

[legoms013]

Who knows. A picture is worth a thousand words here. Guess we have to wait until tomorrow to see whats the matter. I suspect something else is going on.

 

[88_Eddie]

I'm a little confused on what his setup is now. It sounds like he is using 4" coils with 2.5" drop brackets, and if thats the case he needs the 4" drop brackets (and maybe a few washers). I could be wrong though

yeah, he's running the 4" coils and 2.5" drop brackets, but his coil buckets are lowered as well.

i think the math was skewed somewhere down the line

 

[legoms013]

This is exactly what happens when you go custom, you get custom problems! lol.

Well if his buckets are indeed lowered still, then he definitely needs some bigger drop brackets.

But that doesn't explain how the driver's side is able to be aligned just fine?

 

[The_Dealer]

Sorry guys I think I confused everyone here.

My setup is stock bucket height, no spacers, and 4" sj coils.

I have the old style(or so I'm told) tuff country 2.5" pivot drops, and some rough country ra drops.

Now that that's cleared up ill say, my rig came with the pivot drops, and its always been like that, even before I did the adjustable camber bushings. Had more adjustability on the driversside then the passenger Side for some reason.

The alignment shop said that nothing looked bent, and I didn't think so either. They also set the toe before the camber. Also the passenger side caster never could get right.

The way I was gonna mod my drop bracket, the hole where the cam centric bolt would only need to be about 1/4" to 1/2" lower, and doesn't seem that it would compromise integrity. I was gonna weld on the new tabs for the cam bolt sothe camber would be slightly neg with the bolt set for max neg. And fine tune with my camber bushings. Then if later on I find out something is bent and I fix it, will still be alignable that way.

And by modding, here's what I'm talking about.

The tab looking deals that are above and below the offset cam washer. Grind those off, and enlarging the oval cam bolt hole a little farther down on the drop, then welding on new tabs to keep the offset cam washer from moving up or down. Basically it will be like it is now with the cam bolt hole going farther down.

I'm gettng a d35 soon, but its auto hubs and not the right ratio, so I'd like to wait to install it when its ready. Plus I'm out of funds due to all the parts, and I need it alignavle to not kill my tires. But if yall advise against modding the drop then I won't do it. Couldn't get pics today I was working on a guage problem . But I promise I'm gonna take a lot from different angles so I can figure this out

Don't know if I mentioned but both camber bushings are install for the same amount of camber. Alignment shop thouse that was the problem too, so the took them out to see and I had them right

 

[The_Dealer]

Also my front driversside tire has always stuck out about 1/8" farther then the pass. Not noticable till u get to measuring. Is there any measurements I can use to check if stuff is bent? Maybe a bent frame?

 

[The_Dealer]

Ok here's the pics.

Drivers drop cam bolt

Is it just me or does my pass side drop bracket look bent? The back is higher then the front of it. That would cause caster problems too right?

What yall think is going on? The pass drop isn't level when u look from the side, so its not a perfect 90 degree angle where the drop bolts to the xmember and where it goes out to connect to the beam. Or is it supposed to be like that? Yall see what I'm saying?

 

[legoms013]

Yes your passenger bracket looks a little tweaked, but doesn't look like enough to matter.

I think your alignment technician should have a read through of this:
http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2008/steering_tech.htm

It is possible for a grossly out of spec toe setting to cause the tires to appear to have positive camber. You can check if it is way out of whack by backing up a few feet, then the camber will go major negative....and will then return to very positive when you roll a few feet forward. If it does this tell your alignment friend to work on the camber/caster before messing with the toe.

That being said, your camber problems don't look bad at all. I'd live with it, the positive camber won't chew your tires up anymore than those really steep tie-rods will (the bumpsteer from that will wear your tires out faster than a camber setting....think about it, the camber constantly changes while driving, this is not what wears the tires funny, its the bumpsteer caused by out of phase steering linkage and lift height dragging the tire across the pavement laterally). You need a drop pitman arm ASAP, or if you have one already, you need a SJ FA600.


Unless the photos are deceiving I think the camber is a moot point....throw an ace chest in the back and a dog in the passenger seat. Add some skid plates and rock sliders and the positive camber will go away (and then you can fine tune with washers).

My experience with Tuff Country brackets (the 4" ones) were that they didn't center the axles benethe the truck very well, and one tire stuck out farther than the other....its a side effect of the variances between rangers and BII, as well as somewhat cheaper quality brackets. Hard to tell if things are bent, unless you can just visually look at it and say, "yep, bent".

How much positive camber is your alignment readout showing? I have 0.5+ camber on my passenger side, and it looks way worse than your situation. I leave it that way so that when I load down for a trip I don't dive into negative camber as much (sometimes not at all).

I don't think I'd hack up my brackets if I were you.

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

Caster, camber and THEN set toe.

 

[The_Dealer]

Ea I know the angles are bad, and I'm going to put a drop pitman on there, but do I need a extreme drop pitman with those 2.5" drops brackets? But yea I'm finding another alignment shop anyways. Sometimes the camber doesn't look that badbut other times it looks worse. I think I'm gonna put the drop pitman arm on it(would the regular drop pitman be fine? Its a lot cheaper) then get some 4" skyjacker drop brackets and use some washers (in the 4" hole) and camber bushings to dial it in. I'm getting new tires pretty soon and I waant the front end right to not eat them up.

So when they set the toe first then camber the toe is prolly out?