Low hieght SAS?

[Beanmachine7000]

Problems like what?

SAS could potentially be like opening up a huge can-o-worms if you aren't fully familiar with what all is needed (and in the case of a D30 or D44, eliminates few problems that exist with the D35, while possibly introducing others in their place).

I'm building this up to go camping for several weeks at a time and be able to make it back (it's usually me and 2 other people and all our gear in my truck)... As you can imagine space is at a premium and the least amount of junk(spares) I'd have to take would really help my space issues... It just seems to me that a straight axle (having less moving parts) would be more reliable and something I wouldn't have to worry about...

 

[Bray D]

check my build. I'd say I'm as low as you can reasonably go with a hp D44. My track bar contacts the top of my diff at ~3.5" of uptravel. If I put a bend if my track bar, I may gain an inch before my driveshaft contacts my exhaust or my diff itself contacts my engine crossmember. I had to trim fenders to clear 35's.

 

[4x4junkie]

I'm building this up to go camping for several weeks at a time and be able to make it back (it's usually me and 2 other people and all our gear in my truck)... As you can imagine space is at a premium and the least amount of junk(spares) I'd have to take would really help my space issues... It just seems to me that a straight axle (having less moving parts) would be more reliable and something I wouldn't have to worry about...

I think you're probably worrying about nothing...
If you think about it... The TTB axle has one more moving part than a straight axle, the center slip-shaft & u-joint assembly on the right side shaft. However it is not normally a weak spot on the axle, due to the fact the angles it runs at are much less than that normally seen at the steering joints (the exception is if you allow the shaft to bind up inside the beam because you didn't check for and make sufficient clearance after modding the suspension for more flex, then you'd wipe out u-joints left & right on that side).
The spare shafts I carry for mine actually take up LESS room than spares for a solid axle would, as the right-side shaft is in two sections instead of one long one.

The TTB suspension is supported by a grand total of 4 movable mounting points (bushings). Any coil-sprung straight axle will also need at least that number to support it (2 on the radius arms, 2 on the track bar). Many use far more (Jeep, for example). The TTB's stock steering is just as simple too (at least mechanically anyway). It's really a pretty dirt-simple setup any way you look at it.



Not everyone sees it that way though, so if you still want to swap, then I would very strongly suggest looking past Dana30s, they are a big step backward no matter how you look at it. Use a D44 at minimum. The D44 will at least maintain the same level of strength and will also get you bigger brakes in the process if you think you need them (D44 knuckles & brakes can be swapped onto the D35 as well).
Like some of the others have already said, uptravel will be limited by the frame & crossmember with a short lift using a straight axle. 6" lift is really about the practical minimum.






Anyway, hope that helps out with your decision...
FWIW, I just got done spending 10 days straight up on the Dusy/Ershim and Swamp Lake trails in the California Sierra Mtns myself (Google these if you're not familiar). These are not exactly your typical "cake-walk in the park" trails, and I had absolutely no issues to speak of with the frontend of my BII whatsoever. I did not trailer it either, I drove it the full distance on the highway to get there & back as well (I made the same trip last year too. There are some pics on my BII Cardomain page from last year on there of what the trail is like).
There's a chance someday I may SAS mine, but I'm saving the swap for a D60 and 37" tires minimum, nothing smaller. Right now the D35 continues to serve me fine.

 

[JohnnyU]

I think you're probably worrying about nothing...
If you think about it... The TTB axle has one more moving part than a straight axle, the center slip-shaft & u-joint assembly on the right side shaft. However it is not normally a weak spot on the axle, due to the fact the angles it runs at are much less than that normally seen at the steering joints...

The only thing I will contest you on is this statement. If you live in an area where they use salt or are frequently in deep mud, this slip joint will seize up on you. Most folks won't take the shafts out each time to service this slip joint, and the cap at the end leaks enough to allow water/mud/etc to enter and begin to build up. This isn't really a failure point, but a servicability issue more than anything.


I just spent three hours last week helping Burnside beat the snot out of his axle shafts to get these separated.

 

[bobbywalter]

The only thing I will contest you on is this statement. If you live in an area where they use salt or are frequently in deep mud, this slip joint will seize up on you. Most folks won't take the shafts out each time to service this slip joint, and the cap at the end leaks enough to allow water/mud/etc to enter and begin to build up. This isn't really a failure point, but a servicability issue more than anything.


I just spent three hours last week helping Burnside beat the snot out of his axle shafts to get these separated.

which usually leaves them slopped out snap happy junk too.

withering easy to find cheap supply of d35 shafts was a big reason to sas for me..

though 8.8 failures required the rear to be changed to something different as that was WAY too costly for me. likely had i a ff60 from a j truck i would have left the 35 in my ranger till i moved west.


for camping trips with 33 in tires i would never swap a d35 for anything.

thats a piss waste of time.

as to the 8.8 if i went with a detroit or a e locker i may have been ok, but i knew a 14 or 60 would get it done for sure. was sick of spending money on the 8.8....the 35 broke all the time but was cheap and easy to fix.

 

[Beanmachine7000]

I think you're probably worrying about nothing...
If you think about it... The TTB axle has one more moving part than a straight axle, the center slip-shaft & u-joint assembly on the right side shaft. However it is not normally a weak spot on the axle, due to the fact the angles it runs at are much less than that normally seen at the steering joints (the exception is if you allow the shaft to bind up inside the beam because you didn't check for and make sufficient clearance after modding the suspension for more flex, then you'd wipe out u-joints left & right on that side).
The spare shafts I carry for mine actually take up LESS room than spares for a solid axle would, as the right-side shaft is in two sections instead of one long one.

The TTB suspension is supported by a grand total of 4 movable mounting points (bushings). Any coil-sprung straight axle will also need at least that number to support it (2 on the radius arms, 2 on the track bar). Many use far more (Jeep, for example). The TTB's stock steering is just as simple too (at least mechanically anyway). It's really a pretty dirt-simple setup any way you look at it.



Not everyone sees it that way though, so if you still want to swap, then I would very strongly suggest looking past Dana30s, they are a big step backward no matter how you look at it. Use a D44 at minimum. The D44 will at least maintain the same level of strength and will also get you bigger brakes in the process if you think you need them (D44 knuckles & brakes can be swapped onto the D35 as well).
Like some of the others have already said, uptravel will be limited by the frame & crossmember with a short lift using a straight axle. 6" lift is really about the practical minimum.






Anyway, hope that helps out with your decision...
FWIW, I just got done spending 10 days straight up on the Dusy/Ershim and Swamp Lake trails in the California Sierra Mtns myself (Google these if you're not familiar). These are not exactly your typical "cake-walk in the park" trails, and I had absolutely no issues to speak of with the frontend of my BII whatsoever. I did not trailer it either, I drove it the full distance on the highway to get there & back as well (I made the same trip last year too. There are some pics on my BII Cardomain page from last year on there of what the trail is like).
There's a chance someday I may SAS mine, but I'm saving the swap for a D60 and 37" tires minimum, nothing smaller. Right now the D35 continues to serve me fine.

This makes me feel a little better... Right now I'm really tossing around ideas, I still have a month or so till I start my build, but I want to be able to get everything done before spring so I need to decide what I'm doing and get it done...

The only thing I will contest you on is this statement. If you live in an area where they use salt or are frequently in deep mud, this slip joint will seize up on you. Most folks won't take the shafts out each time to service this slip joint, and the cap at the end leaks enough to allow water/mud/etc to enter and begin to build up. This isn't really a failure point, but a servicability issue more than anything.


I just spent three hours last week helping Burnside beat the snot out of his axle shafts to get these separated.

What would servicing this slip join consist of? Just pulling it out and greasing? How often would this need to be done? It wouldn't be any problem to do it after every camping trip (usually once a month for 2-3 weeks at a time)... If I would have to do it after every trip down a salt covered road (once a week in Dec, Jan, and Feb around here) that would be a little excessive I think...


Does anyone know if there is one thread that has the main RBV shortcomings off-raod? I'd like to eliminate all the weak links that way I can get there and back (even if I have to limp home) without help from anyone else...

 

[Beanmachine7000]

which usually leaves them slopped out snap happy junk too.

withering easy to find cheap supply of d35 shafts was a big reason to sas for me..

though 8.8 failures required the rear to be changed to something different as that was WAY too costly for me. likely had i a ff60 from a j truck i would have left the 35 in my ranger till i moved west.


for camping trips with 33 in tires i would never swap a d35 for anything.

thats a piss waste of time.

as to the 8.8 if i went with a detroit or a e locker i may have been ok, but i knew a 14 or 60 would get it done for sure. was sick of spending money on the 8.8....the 35 broke all the time but was cheap and easy to fix.

I'm planning on some type of locker in the rear (likely and e/air locker)... I noticed that Warn no longer makes their FF kit for the 8.8"... Is there a FF rear axle similiar to an 8.8"? (Being that if I destroy a shaft I can pull it and lock the rear and drive out with only one shaft)

 

[bobbywalter]

with 33 in tires, manual trans, and lockouts, only problems with an rbv is lack of factory locking diffs and 4 speed t case.....


i love these things

 

[bobbywalter]

I'm planning on some type of locker in the rear (likely and e/air locker)... I noticed that Warn no longer makes their FF kit for the 8.8"... Is there a FF rear axle similiar to an 8.8"? (Being that if I destroy a shaft I can pull it and lock the rear and drive out with only one shaft)

i would use a e locker or detroit...but really a quick lock for your intentions may be peachy.


the damn shafts are so available just have a set dressed and hangin under the bed on big trips along with a d shaft and extra steering.


thats what i usually do

 

[JohnnyU]

What would servicing this slip join consist of? Just pulling it out and greasing? How often would this need to be done? It wouldn't be any problem to do it after every camping trip (usually once a month for 2-3 weeks at a time)... If I would have to do it after every trip down a salt covered road (once a week in Dec, Jan, and Feb around here) that would be a little excessive I think...

Burnside's rig is beat on like a little red-headed stepchild. It's rode hard and put away wet nearly every other weekend during the summer (at least so far this year). His truck (or my old Ranger) is perhaps a bad example.

The slip joint would really only need to be regreased periodically. If you are in deep mud and decide to flush your differentials and repack your wheel bearings, might as well pull the shafts and clean/grease the slip spline and check the spindle bearings. It might even fall under the same service interval as changing the oil, that might be a good time to go through the whole front end like this.

Honestly, it's not difficult. As long as everything comes apart, you can have the front end torn down in less than 30 minutes as long as you've already done the c-clip eliminator modifications.


And yes Bobby, I'm sure these shafts are more likely to grenade after having all that grit riding in there and being hammered on, but he's got a high-pinion D60 sitting in the garage already in the event that he breaks another axle shaft.

 

[Beanmachine7000]

i would use a e locker or detroit...but really a quick lock for your intentions may be peachy.


the damn shafts are so available just have a set dressed and hangin under the bed on big trips along with a d shaft and extra steering.


thats what i usually do

You'd recommend an E-locker over an ARB? What about OX? I like it being mechanical, seems like it could be more reliable... I'm not sure where underneath the Explorer I'd fit spare shafts front and rear, steering, and d-shafts... I'm already adding lots of extra stuff under there as is anyway, lol...

 

[Beanmachine7000]

Burnside's rig is beat on like a little red-headed stepchild. It's rode hard and put away wet nearly every other weekend during the summer (at least so far this year). His truck (or my old Ranger) is perhaps a bad example.

The slip joint would really only need to be regreased periodically. If you are in deep mud and decide to flush your differentials and repack your wheel bearings, might as well pull the shafts and clean/grease the slip spline and check the spindle bearings. It might even fall under the same service interval as changing the oil, that might be a good time to go through the whole front end like this.

Honestly, it's not difficult. As long as everything comes apart, you can have the front end torn down in less than 30 minutes as long as you've already done the c-clip eliminator modifications.


And yes Bobby, I'm sure these shafts are more likely to grenade after having all that grit riding in there and being hammered on, but he's got a high-pinion D60 sitting in the garage already in the event that he breaks another axle shaft.

Sounds better now, lol...

 

[bobbywalter]

yeah, eaton e locker over arb any day.


i have broken almost every model arb for 28 and 31 spline 8.8.


in any case getting rid if spiders seems to be the best bet so detroit would seem best for strength...for a driver though i would go e locker next.


but thats me. if your on 33 and not bustin shit then a drop in locker may be just fine.

 

[Will]

I haven't chimed in on the D35 bit in a while, but you definately don't need to swap out your D35 and 8.8. WHen they are set up right, which many of us have done and help you do, they don't just snap. You have to break them. You aren't going to break it.

First thing you have to do is get rid of the E-clip so you can get the passenger side shaft out to service it. That thing never gets any attention because it is hard to get out. About every off-the-street Ranger I have ever seen had disgusting joints. Regular people use 4x4s never to seldom. If you get a Ranger you have to pull it all apart immediately because the '97s are 12 years old and have never had maintenance.

With that wheelbase a 3" lift, a set of 31" MTs and a rear Lockright will get you anywhere. A winch for security.

 

[4x4junkie]

The only thing I will contest you on is this statement. If you live in an area where they use salt or are frequently in deep mud, this slip joint will seize up on you. Most folks won't take the shafts out each time to service this slip joint, and the cap at the end leaks enough to allow water/mud/etc to enter and begin to build up. This isn't really a failure point, but a servicability issue more than anything.


I just spent three hours last week helping Burnside beat the snot out of his axle shafts to get these separated.

It's true, neglecting this can result in the two shafts turning into one lol. This is simply a matter of normal maintenance though. Put some sealant (or weld) around the cap on the yoke if it leaks, make sure the axle boot is in good condition (most are) and that it's sealed properly against the shaft (zip ties are not sufficient, use metal clamps such as hose clamps).
Service interval should be the same as for your front wheel & spindle bearings (and will be very easy to get to because you'll have everything else already apart).

What would servicing this slip join consist of? Just pulling it out and greasing? How often would this need to be done? It wouldn't be any problem to do it after every camping trip (usually once a month for 2-3 weeks at a time)... If I would have to do it after every trip down a salt covered road (once a week in Dec, Jan, and Feb around here) that would be a little excessive I think...

Yep, pull it apart, slather a bunch of moly CV joint grease on/in it, put it back together (make sure the axle yokes are still in phase when reassembling it).
See above for interval.

I'm not sure where underneath the Explorer I'd fit spare shafts front and rear, steering, and d-shafts... I'm already adding lots of extra stuff under there as is anyway, lol...

I keep my front shafts right here (a 2" BL has more advantages than you might think ):


On long trips far away from civilization, I'll strap a spare steering linkage to the top of the rear bumper (happens to fit perfect there with the custom bumper setup I have).

I don't normally carry a spare front driveshaft though, having the HP frontend puts it up high enough that damaging it doesn't seem too likely

Does anyone know if there is one thread that has the main RBV shortcomings off-raod? I'd like to eliminate all the weak links that way I can get there and back (even if I have to limp home) without help from anyone else...

Check through the RBV Axle Upgrades sticky and the Suspension FAQs for some info, if you haven't already. Aside from that, some searching and looking through other's experiences may yield some info ('90s 4.0L RBVs overall are pretty robust).

yeah, eaton e locker over arb any day.


i have broken almost every model arb for 28 and 31 spline 8.8.

You've broken the newer 3-spider ARBs too??