Legal issues with catalytic converter removal and these forums..

[AaronC]

I see a lot of fuss over the topic of cat converter removal..

Removing the catalytic converter(s) is illegal. Regardless of the emissions laws in your particular state, it is against Federal law. The Ranger Station does not endorse or recommend removing the catalytic converter. Threads or posts advising removal of the catalytic converter may be locked or removed.

1. It is against the law.
2. The engine computer is set up to run with the cat, so if you remove it you may get a CEL, code, whatever, and that can mess up other things that the computer controls.
3. The only way it may be even remotely legal to remove it would be on an off-road-only vehicle that is never driven on public roads.
4. If you want it loud, it is perfectly okay to remove the muffler and resonator (if so equipped) and run a straight pipe behind the catalytic converter.
5. There are legal high-flow cats available.
6. Frankly, modern catalytic converters aren't very restrictive anyway due to gas mileage concerns.




Anytime this is brought up the thread will be closed.

I totally understand TRS' concern with the topic. Especially when the average teenager pops up in the forum asking about the issue.. "I want a loud exhaust" or "I want better flow".

I have a question for the Mods of TRS. Theres a lot of trucks on here that are strickly off road vehicles. Both of my rangers are..

I am planning on building a 4.0 for my B4000. I have a lot of questions to ask some of the members here. I was planning on running a true dual exhaust with an x-pipe for equalized exhaust pressure.. The vehicle is not on road registered so I will not be installing cats. I have no concerns on "back pressure" and the ignition and fuel injection will be on their own stand alone system.. So would this topic be open for discussion mods? or will the 4.0 build thread I plan to start end at exhaust? Thanks
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[Captain Ledd]

I really just wouldn't mention it. It's not a "Can I _____?" type post. Any question about removing or altering cats is universally NO. There is no question to be asked.

Even still, aftermarket CAT's are cheap, even good ones. My friend that I just helped put a 4.7L Jeep stroker engine in his J10 had the exhaust completely redone. We are using a harness, computer, and everything else from a 2000 Jeep XJ. Which means OBDII stuff. The exhaust and everything ran us $280. Tube, labor, and OBDII cat. Manifold to tip.

OBD I cats are even cheaper, you can get those for $40-$50 all day.

They really do clean up some of the more polluting chemicals that come out of the exhaust.

All this being said, my '84 with the 302 doesn't run cats. I also barely put 400 miles on it a year.

Just don't broadcast it.

 

[Hahnsb2]

Duraspark conversions are also against federal law, so are many of the engine swaps performed here, so is the fact I'm running my truck on Megasquirt, for some reason cats are the only thing they care about

 

[AaronC]

I really just wouldn't mention it. It's not a "Can I _____?" type post. Any question about removing or altering cats is universally NO. There is no question to be asked.

Even still, aftermarket CAT's are cheap, even good ones. My friend that I just helped put a 4.7L Jeep stroker engine in his J10 had the exhaust completely redone. We are using a harness, computer, and everything else from a 2000 Jeep XJ. Which means OBDII stuff. The exhaust and everything ran us $280. Tube, labor, and OBDII cat. Manifold to tip.

OBD I cats are even cheaper, you can get those for $40-$50 all day.

They really do clean up some of the more polluting chemicals that come out of the exhaust.

All this being said, my '84 with the 302 doesn't run cats. I also barely put 400 miles on it a year.

Just don't broadcast it.

I live in California..

Cats can only be bought at a dealership in which they are to be installed at the dealership.

The bill on that is almost $500 per cat.. For parts and labor.

 

[AaronC]

Duraspark conversions are also against federal law, so are many of the engine swaps performed here, so is the fact I'm running my truck on Megasquirt, for some reason cats are the only thing they care about

This is why I'm puzzled since lurking through the forums..

 

[BlackBII]

It's against federal law to remove a cat from a vehicle. It does not matter what you are planning on using the vehicle for. It's just the simple fact that you removed it or are planning on removing it.

TRS doesn't want be hosting anything that suggests someone remove it, because in the event that someone enforcing said law were to come across said information and find that TRS was suggesting illegal activity, it would lead to undesirable results.

Get over it.

Just don't mention the cats themselves at all, and your thread wont be closed.

 

[feellnfroggy]

Yet We talk in the Tailgate and other sections about how to deal with roommates or @$$hole drivers that cut you off and then pull into bars. Talking about cat removal doesnt mean TRS is endorsing it. These are views of individuals talking about their experiences or plans. As long as TRS doesnt put it in the tech section I dont see the problem. Its a mod and fits certain peoples tastes. Its gonna be done one way or another. If we eliminate every federally illegal conversation , such as the few the that hint at removing our illustrious leader Obama(known as treason, depending on what side of the constitution yoru looking at) we would have 1/2 the conversations. Certain cars trucks engine swaps etc. dont legally require cats. Its overkill and a double standard.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

It is real simple to me my 84 came stock with a cat and it still has a cat. It aint illegal if you dont get caught.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

If you can't figure out how to take a cat off you don't need to be working on your RBV... it ain't rocket science.

 

[B2 Addict]

It is funny to me how some people focus on one thing that IMHO does nothing. As has been said on here already, MANY of the mods people perform on their vehicles (& which are discussed on this forum) are "illegal".

This whole emissions thing is way out of control, calm down people.....to close someones post just because they mention removing the cat is petty to me. As we know, TRS has all sorts of disclaimers for these reasons. I know of a "certain individual" (I won't mention names for fear of the Federal Government tracking this individual down...) who has ran their B2 through emissions for 10 years with a gutted cat & came out clean on the smog test every time with no tweaking of the engine.

The emissions laws are ridiculous... if a vehicle is testing clean with a gutted cat, what exactly is that cat doing?............NOTHING!!

Here, they will fail you if they don't see the cat whether the smog test is perfect or not..what difference does it make.... All people do not agree on all modifications, individual taste may not coincide with everyone, that is why we are individuals....

Just because they see it on the vehicle, it doesn't necessarily mean it's "there". I think paranoia is running rampant for literally no reason, I will continue to do what I want to my vehicles regardless, in the meantime, I will assume everyone that has a strong opinion on "exhaust mods" is very adamant about following every law on the book, congratulations on living such a "clean" life........

 

[Acepilot1023]

@B2 Addict - I love you man. Lol

As far as answering your question, I am running my 88 2.9L with true duals straight down off the manifold. I do not have enough back pressure to insure that it never cuts off, but it only cuts off maybe 1 out of 25 times you come to a stop.

I was thinking about running it X-pipes like you are saying, and my exhaust man told me that true dual X-pipes ought to give enough back pressure, but an H-pipe would ensure it. Worst case scenario, you reduce the size of your pipe when you come out of the manifolds...

It's all about taste really, you can't go too wrong. If one way doesn't work, try it another, as there are endless possibilities to this. I personally don't get a rat's @$$ if my truck cuts off once in a blue moon. It's an old offroad truck, it's not supposed to run like a 2011 Ranger......

I know a lot about exhaust systems, besides where it comes into contact with the computer. (O2 sensor.....) so feel free to PM me.

 

[Hahnsb2]

I know of a "certain individual" (I won't mention names for fear of the Federal Government tracking this individual down...) who has ran their B2 through emissions for 10 years with a gutted cat & came out clean on the smog test every time with no tweaking of the engine.

The emissions laws are ridiculous... if a vehicle is testing clean with a gutted cat, what exactly is that cat doing?............NOTHING!!

Possibly because this certain individual has a 2.8, a properly tuned carbed engine will have no problem passing without it, with EFI you can't just lean it out if you take the cat off so it'll pass.

I've tested my B2 with and without a cat and it's a big difference, the smell of the exhaust itself should be enough of a clue. No way it would have passed, without a cat the HCs were 220+ PPM, with a cat it was in the 50s...

Most people that remove cats are chasing performance gains that really aren't there to be had in the majority of cases.

 

[cammeddrz]

why is this still an issue?

at least once a week:

a dude doesn't follow the rules that were clearly posted,

then his thread gets closed,

then he (or someone who read aforementioned thread) gets butt-hurt and posts a thread like this one thinking that their alledged "knowledge" of laws (and how they apply to a sole proprietor, operating an internet forum) will somehow sway trs' rules....even though the 1,000 guys before him failed, while saying the same things

the second thread often goes much further than the first before being closed.

and all the while the rules stay the same

to quote blackbII: GET OVER IT!
if you pissed and moaned like this saying "nuh-uhh! der you should change your rules to fit my logic" to the government or your workplace (or anywhere else) would they change their rules for you? no, so why are you pulling that same old broken record from the trash and putting it back on the turntable?

 

[JohnnyO]

This:

3. The only way it may be even remotely legal to remove it would be on an off-road-only vehicle that is never driven on public roads.

Is all you need to know. And if you are building such a vehicle, I don't see why you even need to ask the question. The Feds don't fine people for speeding or doing burnouts. Beyond that, the sticky covers the subject pretty well. No need to ask questions unless you're the type who feels a need to push the boundaries to see what you can get away with. If you don't like it, go away.

And now I'm going to lock the thread, 1) because I can and 2) simply to piss off you whiners. If you think I care what you think, then you really don't know me very well.