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I've got a 2020 Explorer Loaner


Don't go! It's a trap! They lure you up there with good food, cozy cabins in the woods, awesome trout fishing, great offroading etc. But they will deposit layer upon layer of oxidizing chemicals on your precious vehicle. It will never be the same again!

Don't go up there!!!!!!?

Plus... I'm up here!

tenor (4).gif
 
I also see that GM has switched the tahoe to IRS for 2021. Im assuming the surburban to. That means that there is zero "main stream" SUVs with a real axle in back.

Ford is also supposdly devloping an IRS for upcoming high trim 150s. Guessing it wont be long till that trickles down to.

Its aggravating, if the market would of stayed in sedans where 90% of them belong we would still have real trucks. Instead of wanting trucks that perform like sedans.

Here's the problem: In the 1970's (and earlier, probably), the station wagon was the family hauler. Or, people bought full size vans, if they needed more room. EVERYBODY made a wagon, because that was what people wanted.

In the 1980's, Dud(ge) had this brilliant idea that they would move family hauling into this thing called a mini-van. They had more room than the full size wagon that the family was used to hauling a family with, but they were smaller than the full size van (ads called them garageable). Because the Dud ones were FWD (and eventually everybody else went that way with their minivans), they were easier to drive than the full size van. In fact, they handled like the car that mom would have rather driven.

In the late 1990's, SUVs became capable family haulers, as manufacturers began to downsize their SUV offerings, and make them more car like. Suddenly, the family could get a capable people mover that handled like the car they would rather drive, and with available AWD or 4WD, could better deal with the harsh conditions that some people (rural, for example) dealt with.

Through all of that time, those who didn't have a family still bought coups and sedans. BUT, over time, the sedan's trunk became less useable, and hatchbacks were off the market, because nobody bought them any more (why buy a small hatchback when you can use the minivan for that?). The trunk in a 2004 Ford Focus, or a 2009 Focus, for example, is a good, sizeable trunk. BUT, in the name of aerodynamics, the opening became smaller. Compare, for example, a 1992 Ford Tempo, and a 2004 Ford Focus. the trunk is probably the same size, but the Focus has a much smaller opening.

In 2010, when I bought my Fit, Ford didn't have a small hatch, PERIOD. GM had the Aveo, but nothing bigger than that (Cruz didn't have the hatch yet). Dud(ge)? I don't think they had anything, either. Toyota had the Matrix, Hyundai had the Accent, and Elantra. Kia had the Rio5 and Spectra5. Honda had the Fit and the Insight. I wasn't even considering a sedan at the time, because a sedan didn't have the large trunk opening to facilitate loading.

The bottom line is that people moved to SUVs and CUVs because sedans are now awkward to load. It's possible to load a bag of water softener salt into a 2014 Focus sedan (I've done it, a friend of mine has one), but it's easier to load it into the box of my truck, or, now, the trunk of my '95 Taurus), but difficult, because you virtually have to slide it forward to put it in, you can't just lower it straight down.

Don't :poop: on me for not buying a sedan, so that your SUV can handle like the truck you want it to be. Don't :poop: on me for wanting my small(ish) SUV to handle like a car. Consider that the SUV market has adapted because people like me are buying them. People who want a capable people mover that still handles like a car, has lots of room for cargo, and (in the case of a lot of rural people that live in my area) ground clearance because we drive on gravel roads that get muddy when it rains, and offers AWD or 4WD for that muddy gravel road, and the snow that doesn't get plowed as fast in my small town as it does in the city, or blows in more because there's nothing to stop it.
 
Wait.

Did you buy up to the high level loaner insurance?

Cause if you did. We have ideas.
 
Don't :poop: on me for not buying a sedan, so that your SUV can handle like the truck you want it to be. Don't :poop: on me for wanting my small(ish) SUV to handle like a car. Consider that the SUV market has adapted because people like me are buying them. People who want a capable people mover that still handles like a car, has lots of room for cargo, and (in the case of a lot of rural people that live in my area) ground clearance because we drive on gravel roads that get muddy when it rains, and offers AWD or 4WD for that muddy gravel road, and the snow that doesn't get plowed as fast in my small town as it does in the city, or blows in more because there's nothing to stop it.

Then buy a subaru or deal with the trucklike handling an SUV should have.

SUVs should have 2 solid axles, a V8, manual trans, locking hubs, and large bench seats.
 
Then buy a subaru or deal with the trucklike handling an SUV should have.

SUVs should have 2 solid axles, a V8, manual trans, locking hubs, and large bench seats.

I've driven a couple of Subarus (my Justy, and my dad's '84 GL). I don't think I drove the '80 GL (it was 4x4). Dad's '84 was just FWD. Yes, it could get through stuff that my '79 Corolla couldn't get through, but it didn't have the ground clearance I'm looking for, now.

Last winter, I had a 4 foot drift across part of the driveway. The rest of the driveway, the snow was about 12 inches deep. There's no WAY I'd have gotten my car through that. An Escape, or an Explorer, probably, as long as it was 4x4, and not AWD (or could AWD get through that?) The Justy? Nope! Justy was too low.

So, YES. Ford DOES need an SUV option for people like me. We want a highway cruiser that's comfortable, easy to drive, but when there's a foot of snow on the street, or in the driveway, can get through it. Right now, that option is the Explorer, or Escape. I'm not sure the Edge, or the Flex, could cut it. But, maybe we can ask @adsm08 to ask one of the sales guys at his dealership which vehicle he'd recommend for my needs (yes, I'd like to know, even if I'm not buying right now).
 
If you are sticking to on road and gravel road travel, an modern Explorer with good tires will work just fine for you. I haven't paid enough attention to the modern Escapes to say the same but I'm inclided to say they would be the same as the Explorer, just smaller. I think the Flex is too low slung for what you are looking to use it for. I've paid absolutely no attention to the Edge, so no idea.
 
Really our Edge (2008 AWD) really does pretty decent out here in the sticks.

Ground clearance is where it suffers, last year it kept getting hung up at the end of our road where the state snowplow leaves a berm along the edge of the highway. My stock F-150 would paw at it a bit but it would walk thru it. Edge was a mammoth in a tar pit, I almost had to waddle the tractor out to drag it out once, after that it was cut and dry if we got any respectable snow I would just take her to work in my truck (40 miles out of my way)

And then when the frost went out and the road was like peanut butter the Edge would drag. Again ground clearance was lacking. I was using 4wd for 3mo straight to get to and from the highway in my F-150 between the snow and mud last year, it was a heck of a winter/spring and thanks to the Missouri River flooding the county couldn't get any gravel to fix gravel roads (the state and railroad were buying all they could to fix the rail lines and interstate that got washed out)

BUT it went thru all that and never needed pulled out so there is that. It couldn't do what we needed done but it never got stuck stuck and always at least made it back to the house.

As I told my wife (who moved out here from Omaha) "you ain't in the suburbs anymore" To which her response is to long for a stinkin' Expedition which has no better ground clearance, a worse brakeover angle and would be the heaviest thing in the fleet (real handy when I have to drag it out)

As it sits right now IMO Ford offers nothing that would really interest me, they are all essentially various sized minivans with less useful doors. Ecosport, Escape, Edge, Explorer, Flex, Expedition, Baby Bronco... I think we are doing good on urban SUV's in the lineup. Aside from breakover angle thanks to different wheelbases I wouldn't hold one of them in higher regard than another for a rural dd/offroader. They are all pretty low slung for mpg.

I have tried talking her into a JKU or a 4Runner... she is too die hard Ford to hear of it. :cautious:

The new Bronco has potential but I bet they will get stupid on the pricing AND given my druthers I would rather not have to deal with a removable top. The cage inside a Wrangler almost makes me claustrophobic.

BTW don't call her Edge a turtle, she takes offense to it even though it is kinda shaped like a turtle and gets hung up easy... like a turtle.
 
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I also see that GM has switched the tahoe to IRS for 2021. Im assuming the surburban to. That means that there is zero "main stream" SUVs with a real axle in back.

Ford is also supposdly devloping an IRS for upcoming high trim 150s. Guessing it wont be long till that trickles down to.

Its aggravating, if the market would of stayed in sedans where 90% of them belong we would still have real trucks. Instead of wanting trucks that perform like sedans.
...and trucks wouldn't cost $50k+ either. Cars used to cost more than a pickup truck, now its the opposite because people buy pickups for family sedans rather than buying the car they really need they buy a ginormous pickup so they can pretend to be cool so they can show off to their friends in...they don't need a truck, they just want to pretend they're cool.
 

?





Really our Edge (2008 AWD) really does pretty decent out here in the sticks.

Ground clearance is where it suffers, last year it kept getting hung up at the end of our road where the state snowplow leaves a berm along the edge of the highway. My stock F-150 would paw at it a bit but it would walk thru it. Edge was a mammoth in a tar pit, I almost had to waddle the tractor out to drag it out once, after that it was cut and dry if we got any respectable snow I would just take her to work in my truck (40 miles out of my way)

And then when the frost went out and the road was like peanut butter the Edge would drag. Again ground clearance was lacking. I was using 4wd for 3mo straight to get to and from the highway in my F-150 between the snow and mud last year, it was a heck of a winter/spring and thanks to the Missouri River flooding the county couldn't get any gravel to fix gravel roads (the state and railroad were buying all they could to fix the rail lines and interstate that got washed out)

BUT it went thru all that and never needed pulled out so there is that. It couldn't do what we needed done but it never got stuck stuck and always at least made it back to the house.

As I told my wife (who moved out here from Omaha) "you ain't in the suburbs anymore" To which her response is to long for a stinkin' Expedition which has no better ground clearance, a worse brakeover angle and would be the heaviest thing in the fleet (real handy when I have to drag it out)

As it sits right now IMO Ford offers nothing that would really interest me, they are all essentially various sized minivans with less useful doors. Ecosport, Escape, Edge, Explorer, Flex, Expedition, Baby Bronco... I think we are doing good on urban SUV's in the lineup. Aside from breakover angle thanks to different wheelbases I wouldn't hold one of them in higher regard than another for a rural dd/offroader. They are all pretty low slung for mpg.

I have tried talking her into a JKU or a 4Runner... she is too die hard Ford to hear of it. :cautious:

The new Bronco has potential but I bet they will get stupid on the pricing AND given my druthers I would rather not have to deal with a removable top. The cage inside a Wrangler almost makes me claustrophobic.

BTW don't call her Edge a turtle, she takes offense to it even though it is kinda shaped like a turtle and gets hung up easy... like a turtle.

You take 85. She takes f150.

Veeeeeery easy.
 
Really our Edge (2008 AWD) really does pretty decent out here in the sticks.

Ground clearance is where it suffers, last year it kept getting hung up at the end of our road where the state snowplow leaves a berm along the edge of the highway. My stock F-150 would paw at it a bit but it would walk thru it. Edge was a mammoth in a tar pit, I almost had to waddle the tractor out to drag it out once, after that it was cut and dry if we got any respectable snow I would just take her to work in my truck (40 miles out of my way)

And then when the frost went out and the road was like peanut butter the Edge would drag. Again ground clearance was lacking. I was using 4wd for 3mo straight to get to and from the highway in my F-150 between the snow and mud last year, it was a heck of a winter/spring and thanks to the Missouri River flooding the county couldn't get any gravel to fix gravel roads (the state and railroad were buying all they could to fix the rail lines and interstate that got washed out)

BUT it went thru all that and never needed pulled out so there is that. It couldn't do what we needed done but it never got stuck stuck and always at least made it back to the house.

As I told my wife (who moved out here from Omaha) "you ain't in the suburbs anymore" To which her response is to long for a stinkin' Expedition which has no better ground clearance, a worse brakeover angle and would be the heaviest thing in the fleet (real handy when I have to drag it out)

As it sits right now IMO Ford offers nothing that would really interest me, they are all essentially various sized minivans with less useful doors. Ecosport, Escape, Edge, Explorer, Flex, Expedition, Baby Bronco... I think we are doing good on urban SUV's in the lineup. Aside from breakover angle thanks to different wheelbases I wouldn't hold one of them in higher regard than another for a rural dd/offroader. They are all pretty low slung for mpg.

I have tried talking her into a JKU or a 4Runner... she is too die hard Ford to hear of it. :cautious:

The new Bronco has potential but I bet they will get stupid on the pricing AND given my druthers I would rather not have to deal with a removable top. The cage inside a Wrangler almost makes me claustrophobic.

BTW don't call her Edge a turtle, she takes offense to it even though it is kinda shaped like a turtle and gets hung up easy... like a turtle.

So the Edge may, or may not be suitable for what I need. I'm guessing it won't go through the 12 inches of snow on my driveway?
 
If you are sticking to on road and gravel road travel, an modern Explorer with good tires will work just fine for you. I haven't paid enough attention to the modern Escapes to say the same but I'm inclided to say they would be the same as the Explorer, just smaller. I think the Flex is too low slung for what you are looking to use it for. I've paid absolutely no attention to the Edge, so no idea.

Well, I doubt I'd be taking it into the middle of the farmer's field. But, wet gravel possibly (but not likely) a dirt road.......

Hmm. 2019 Escape is 7.8 inches. Edge is 8.0. Explorer is 8.2. Something tells me neither of them will get through a 12 inch drift, let alone into or out of my driveway when it has 12 inches of snow on it.
 

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