Have a sputtering/bogging under load problem

[97ranger11]

Okay it started yesterday morning when I got in my truck. I started it up and it immediately died. I start it again and it starts up just fine. I pull out in to traffic and accelerate at probably 3/4 throttle and get a bad sputtering. I played around to see when it does it and it was only at 3/4 to full throttle at rpm's over 2500. It would like sputter/cut out really bad to the point the rpms wouldn't go up. It doesn't do this at like half throttle though it will rev out to like 5k fine as long as you aren't stomping on it.

My immediate thought was a clogged fuel injector or something. Anyways I basically drove the piss out (well as much as I could without it sputtering) of and it actually went away. It drove fine the rest of the day. This morning I start it up and it starts up fine but I had the same sputtering problem. I forgot to even check if it was sputtering on the way home since I drive like a grandma usually.


Any thoughts on what this could be?

 

[XLTsplash]

How many miles are on it ? Has it ever had a tune up ?

 

[97ranger11]

150k, I bought it a year ago at 140k

And yeah I changed all the fluids, seafoamed it, new downstream o2 sensor, and serp belt

My thoughts are it is either missing under load due to an electrical issue or it is a fuel problem (clogged injector, pump going bad, fuel filter).

I think it's a fuel problem though considering it has been occasionally dying right after starting (like it's not getting fuel) after being parked overnight

 

[Explorin94]

A tune up entails.....Spark Plugs, Spark Plug Wires, Fuel Filter, PCV Valve, Clean the Throttle body and MAF Sensor. Your truck is missing under a load and the above named parts will/should rectify the problem you are having with it. You are thinking way to hard to fix it when it is that simple. You point out a possible fuel problem? Don't jump to conclusions until you have changed the fuel filter out.

 

[tomw]

Before I did all that, I'd check fuel pressure and delivery volume. If low pressure is the problem, or you can't get a cup(you'll know if it is slow) of fuel in 15 seconds, check the filter.
The MAF can also make the engine run poorly when you step on the gas pedal, so inspecting the wires for 'stuff' is a good idea.
The plugs can be removed & inspected for condition, and the wires can be observed at night to see if there is any leakage to ground. If it idles smooth, all the valves, etc, are working, as are the plugs & wires. A too large gap, or worn plugs will generally cause misfire under heavy load, such as climbing a hill. They may work fine at idle.
If you test fuel pressure, make sure the system will hold pressure after the pump is off. It should not leak down quickly unless an injector or check valve is leaky.
You could also try cycling the key from OFF to ON to OFF several times to prime the fuel rail if there is a leakdown problem. If it then starts and runs well, more investigation of internal leak problems should be done.
tom

 

[97ranger11]

a little update... it's been dying after start usually when I leave in the morning and drive home from work but not all the time. It starts up fine after that and there are no other problems. It hasn't sputtered/missed in a couple days now.

A tune up entails.....Spark Plugs, Spark Plug Wires, Fuel Filter, PCV Valve, Clean the Throttle body and MAF Sensor. Your truck is missing under a load and the above named parts will/should rectify the problem you are having with it. You are thinking way to hard to fix it when it is that simple. You point out a possible fuel problem? Don't jump to conclusions until you have changed the fuel filter out.

I'd rather not spend a hundred bucks and an afternoon to replace plugs and wires because they migh be the problem. I don't think spark plugs/wires would be responsible for it dying right after I start it and it running fine after that. But who knows maybe the two things are unrelated and the missing is an electrical issue.

Before I did all that, I'd check fuel pressure and delivery volume. If low pressure is the problem, or you can't get a cup(you'll know if it is slow) of fuel in 15 seconds, check the filter.
The MAF can also make the engine run poorly when you step on the gas pedal, so inspecting the wires for 'stuff' is a good idea.
The plugs can be removed & inspected for condition, and the wires can be observed at night to see if there is any leakage to ground. If it idles smooth, all the valves, etc, are working, as are the plugs & wires. A too large gap, or worn plugs will generally cause misfire under heavy load, such as climbing a hill. They may work fine at idle.
If you test fuel pressure, make sure the system will hold pressure after the pump is off. It should not leak down quickly unless an injector or check valve is leaky.
You could also try cycling the key from OFF to ON to OFF several times to prime the fuel rail if there is a leakdown problem. If it then starts and runs well, more investigation of internal leak problems should be done.
tom

Thanks. Yeah I was thinking it not holding fuel pressure when sitting was the culprit for it dying. The problem is it is unpredictable when it will die on the first time it starts. Are you saying cycle the key off-on-off before I start it to see if that fixes it?

 

[Explorin94]

I'd rather not spend a hundred bucks and an afternoon to replace plugs and wires because they migh be the problem. I don't think spark plugs/wires would be responsible for it dying right after I start it and it running fine after that. But who knows maybe the two things are unrelated and the missing is an electrical issue.?

You would rather not spend the money to try and fix the problem with your truck? From everything that you described and what I told you that needs to be done IS your problem with your truck. Put a fuel filter on it as the one that is on there right now is plugged and not allowing the fuel to get through the filter so it will stay running. Next time you try to start it first thing after it has sat all night turn the key on without trying to start it let the fuel pressure build up shut the key off turn it back on and let the pressure build again and then try to start it. How long have you had this truck? Do you know the maintenance history that goes with it?

 

[RonD]

Ford computers run the fuel pump for 2 seconds when key is first turned on, fuel pump doesn't come on again until engine RPMs are above 500.
Cycling the key on and off while listening for the fuel pump does two things, it builds up lost pressure but also tells you if Fuel Pump Relay might be intermittent, every time the key is turned on you should hear the fuel pump come on, there is no "pressure sensor" for fuel system, so pump should always come on for 2 seconds.

Fuel pump relays do fail, or the voltage to the relay can be low do to wire corrosion so relay "pops" open then closes again, when it "opens" engine will stall almost immediately.
Fuel Pump Relay is in the Power box in the engine compartment, with relay removed and key on there should be two sockets that have battery voltage, about 12.5volts.
If one has lower voltage then the wire feeding that socket may be corroded.

Also check the exhaust flow at the tail pipe with some one reving the engine, partially clogged exhaust(collapsing cat or muffler) can cause issues you describe.

 

[97ranger11]

You would rather not spend the money to try and fix the problem with your truck? From everything that you described and what I told you that needs to be done IS your problem with your truck. Put a fuel filter on it as the one that is on there right now is plugged and not allowing the fuel to get through the filter so it will stay running. Next time you try to start it first thing after it has sat all night turn the key on without trying to start it let the fuel pressure build up shut the key off turn it back on and let the pressure build again and then try to start it. How long have you had this truck? Do you know the maintenance history that goes with it?

I'm just saying I'm inclined to think that the two issues I'm having are related since they both started the same day and I don't think plugs/wires could cause the starting issue I'm having (correct me if I am wrong).

A blockage in the fuel system (pump, filter, injector) would make more sense if the problems are related since it could cause both.

Now if it was just the sputtering I probably would go ahead and spend the coin on new plugs and wires. I still might I'd just rather exhaust other (cheaper) options first.

I don't know the truck's history.

about spark plug wires... does anyone know the difference in motocraft part number wr4089 and wr4109? Both fordparts.com and rock auto list both for my truck.

 

[tomw]

As noted above, cycling the key from OFF to ON to OFF and then repeating several times will run the fuel pump at each cycle. That should pressurize the system and insure that there is fuel in the injector rail immediately as needed.
If you can climb a good hill in 4th gear w/o the engine doing any bucking or surging, the plugs and wires are working as that is the hardest time to fire a plug. Basically in high gear with a little 'lug' on the engine. If you can downshift and run up a hill in 3rd gear with out running low on fuel, you don't have a filter or pump problem. You are placing a high demand on the pump & filter revving in 3rd for a long climb.
If the engine runs smooth at idle, the valves etc are doing their job. For the most part.
I have no more.
tom

 

[XLTsplash]

It won't cost you anything to remove a spark plug and see how it looks. If it's a Factory plug it way past it's life. If the spark plugs are not Motorcraft or Autolite I would replace them even if they looked new.

 

[97ranger11]

Ok a little update. It seemed to be driving perfectly normal for a day or two. Then yesterday morning I had to make a 50 mile drive. Started it up dies. Took a few tries. Stopped for breakfast same thing. Didn't seem to be sputtering at all though. I was at my destination a couple hours and when I went to leave it didn't want to idle and took several tries starting it to get it to run. The whole trip back it felt like it was running on two cylinders, sputtering and surging real bad when accelerating and driving. It seemed to be driving better towrads the end of the trip and when I went to do some errands that evening.

Anyways this morning I cleaned the maf. Picked up a fuel filter I haven't put in yet too.The maf sensor wasn't really dirty but there were some dirt particles around it. Anyways I took it for a drive, it started right up and had more power than before and was not sputtering at all. I think that fixed it but I guess time will tell.

You got me thinking about plugs/wires as it is probably time for them I think I'm gonna do the timing belt/waterpump and do the plugs and wires while I have it apart. As far as waterpumps go the motocraft is over 100 and there's a bunch of off brands for $30. Anyone know of a good water pump for these trucks that won't break me?

 

[RonD]

I would/do base my decision to use a Ford part vs a 3rd party part on how long the Ford part(original) has lasted and how hard it is to change the part.
And of course the price difference

I have never changed the water pump on a 2.3l so don't know what is involved, on my 4.0l I used 3rd party because it isn't that hard to change.

 

[XLTsplash]

I would go with a aftermarket reman. water pump. Many times they will have a lifetime warranty. With a reman. most of the water pump will be original Ford quality . I would stay away from the new made in China water pump. Most likely if you buy a water pump from Ford it will be a reman. for more money and less warranty.

 

[tomw]

The only difference between a new and re-man unit is the casting will be brand new on one and used on the other. The moving & sealing parts on both will be new.
If you have not already done so, I would add some 'heet' or dry-gas to the fuel tank when it is getting close to the time to re-fuel. I suspect that the alcohol 'enhanced' fuels, which will absorb some water, are more easily contaminated than older blends that did not have alcohol. I had an intermittent miss that seemed as if the engine did not want to run. When I went to shift, the rpm drop was different from normal, as it wanted to drop rpms quickly, and it made smooth shifts more difficult. Then it would go back to normal. I think it was water contamination.
tom