gt40p in 1984 ranger /which headers will work

[JoshT]

He made swap headers for the older trucks. IIRC they were made with the help of 410Fortune on Explorer forums for his Explorer to BII swap. http://www.torquemonsterheaders.com/multimedia.html#TorqueMonsterSwapHeaders

I'm not sure if the other company makes the swap headers as well. I want to say that I contacted them and they could make them, but it's been a while so I can't be sure. I know I decided that I'd rather save the money a get a set of aftermarket heads at some point.

 

[bobbywalter]

This is one person experience I'm going off. We have the same engines and almost the same setup but he has the e7 heads.

I like having the torque down low, I'm a lazy shifter but also having a 3 speed trans (np435) I need the torque there too. Being my truck is driven in town most of the time, I don't see high rpm situations to much.

I do understand the differences between the P's and non P's enough to say if you can avoid the P's, do just that.

But if the chance for a set of decent e7's came across me for the right price, nothing says I would pass them up and my engine not see them, always like a nice HP boost when I can have the chance.

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p's with some trickflow springs and even a e3 would be nice power numbers from where you are now. trying to wheel dyno under 1300 wouldnt work with my trucks setup, but the truck cam would load down to 1k but was too erratic.... p's are perfect for you as you already have the headers.

He made swap headers for the older trucks. IIRC they were made with the help of 410Fortune on Explorer forums for his Explorer to BII swap. http://www.torquemonsterheaders.com/multimedia.html#TorqueMonsterSwapHeaders

I'm not sure if the other company makes the swap headers as well. I want to say that I contacted them and they could make them, but it's been a while so I can't be sure. I know I decided that I'd rather save the money a get a set of aftermarket heads at some point.

yeah i remember when all of that was in the planning phases. took some time and a few versions but turned out great..

 

[dangerranger83]

And the headers suck to get pkg wires around. A few of them need to get some 90 degree boots due to I have a couple of wires that have touched them for too long.

I do like the headers I have though I do wish I could get my hands on the cast ones to help improve the flow a bit and keep my wires from getting cooked. But since these are working for me and I'm only at 200hp, no need to do anything right now. Just want to get my truck 4wd in the next month and start having more fun with it and less major mod/work time on it.

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[green lantern]

Yo, smartass! Don't get pissy with us when you haven't told us a thing about your motor except that it had GT40P heads.

Since you won't take the time to tell us what you have I went and dug a little. Per one of your previous threads asking for what you need for your engine.



Hate to break it to you, but you have a 2000 dollar motor there if you bought the best aftermarket off the shelf components you could. Yes the GT40p are about the best factory 302 head, but they are far from the best head. Even among factory heads once you start porting and polishing the GT40p gets left behind, it can't be taken as far. On a 5000 dollar motor the first thing to go would be the heads. You could have a nice stroker motor with aftermarket heads for that price.

For what you have get a set of cast Explorer manifolds, they will fit and be plenty for that motor. Save you money and when you eventually get a good set of heads (you will if you are any bit of a gear head) get a set of headers that work for them.

As for the torque monsters you may want to cancel your order. There's a few threads about it over on explorer forums about those, seems the guy has gotten a little flaky or gotten out of the business. I think that they have the info for the company that actually made them for that guy.

Before you get huffed up about my post you should know that I am doing a very similar build. 1986 Ranger getting 1998 Explorer 302 w/ GT40P heads. Biggest difference is that I am keeping the Explorer's EFI system. The motor is going in stock for now to make sure it is wired right and get the bugs worked out. Once I'm sure I have a successful swap I'll be building a 331 or 347 stroker to replace this motor. Rather than spending big bucks on a set of torque monster headers, I'll be using the cast logs for now. When that other motor is getting built I'll get a nice set of Tri-Y headers (won't work on 4x4) for about $200 and spend that other 500 towards a nice set of aftermarket heads. I'd rather spend 1700 bucks on better heads and headers, than spend 700 bucks on headers and wish that I had better heads.

if you could build a 302 with all new parts plus machining and balancing and porting and valves and springs etc.... that would be great but unfortunately in reality it all adds up and 2000 doesn't go very far so before you go filling me full of your infinite knowledge of engine building lets just stick to the question at hand. If you dont have an answer your opinion is just that.

 

[green lantern]

Bob who did the original TM headers was basically a one man operation, taken over now by the people who did his finish welding. Don't believe he ever made sets for that old of a truck. New owners are a lot more responsive and quicker service. Explorer Forum did have a group buy going on a couple months ago. Can't see with what you have listed that is anywhere close to what a $5k motor is around here. Saying a Comp Cam means nothing. The "P" heads are the cheap upgrade for a lot of Mustang guys but require a spring upgrade first of all. Most of the guys here will really try and help so lighten up and give them some slack.
Dave

engine was built professionally, heads built professionally, any issues with the internal working of the motor have been addressed by guys that do nothing but build engines for a living so as far as the mechanics of it go there are no issues. the question was about headers not to get opinions from all the "expert" engine builders on this forum. Torque monster headers are impossible to get hold of after the order is place . ordered two months ago and cant even reach anyone there now. I guess my only option is custom made headers. Engine is waiting to be dynoed but i gotta get headers on it first. This is not your typical backyard 4x4 ranger. I do not own it nor would i stick that kind of money into a old truck but there are some people that do believe it or not. thanks for the info and opinions but not one person has answered my question if there are any off the shelf headers that fit. I will go with custom headers then. thanks

 

[green lantern]

And after reading up on the gt40p, gt40, E7 and my current E6 heads, if I had to choose another type I would go for the E7 or gt40. The gt40p can't even handle an HO cam lift, which is what I'm running.

But personally I will stick with my E6 heads, puts the torque at the lower RPMs were I want it. Plus I'm running the stock explorer headers. Worked perfectly for my swap and give the back pressure I need. But the downside, keeping the plug wires off them.

If I were you, get a different set of heads while you still can, makes life easier down the road. And if you got a deal on them, now you know why.

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and this is all based on what? your opinion! Thanks for the absolutely useless info that's based solely on your opinion. Its obvious you have no idea what your talking about. why bother?

 

[green lantern]

Yo, smartass! Don't get pissy with us when you haven't told us a thing about your motor except that it had GT40P heads.

Since you won't take the time to tell us what you have I went and dug a little. Per one of your previous threads asking for what you need for your engine.



Hate to break it to you, but you have a 2000 dollar motor there if you bought the best aftermarket off the shelf components you could. Yes the GT40p are about the best factory 302 head, but they are far from the best head. Even among factory heads once you start porting and polishing the GT40p gets left behind, it can't be taken as far. On a 5000 dollar motor the first thing to go would be the heads. You could have a nice stroker motor with aftermarket heads for that price.

For what you have get a set of cast Explorer manifolds, they will fit and be plenty for that motor. Save you money and when you eventually get a good set of heads (you will if you are any bit of a gear head) get a set of headers that work for them.

As for the torque monsters you may want to cancel your order. There's a few threads about it over on explorer forums about those, seems the guy has gotten a little flaky or gotten out of the business. I think that they have the info for the company that actually made them for that guy.

Before you get huffed up about my post you should know that I am doing a very similar build. 1986 Ranger getting 1998 Explorer 302 w/ GT40P heads. Biggest difference is that I am keeping the Explorer's EFI system. The motor is going in stock for now to make sure it is wired right and get the bugs worked out. Once I'm sure I have a successful swap I'll be building a 331 or 347 stroker to replace this motor. Rather than spending big bucks on a set of torque monster headers, I'll be using the cast logs for now. When that other motor is getting built I'll get a nice set of Tri-Y headers (won't work on 4x4) for about $200 and spend that other 500 towards a nice set of aftermarket heads. I'd rather spend 1700 bucks on better heads and headers, than spend 700 bucks on headers and wish that I had better heads.

hate to break it to you but your dreaming if you think you can buy a professionally built motor for 2 grand. have you ever actually built any of the above for mentioned things or is it all in theory because it sounds to me like your full of maybes, and what ifs,but have no actual working knowledge. Everything your saying is based solely on what? you have not built this efi 347 cubic inch motor your bragging about but yet somehow your an expert? when you have actually built this motor then you can add your two cents but till then it really has nothing to do with my question and your just spouting off with useless witty banter to try and sound like you have a clue.

 

[bobbywalter]

well sir, i did not mean to offend you in the least... i am just a uneducated hillbilly, but i am speaking from experience, my name is bobby walter and i am a detroit area native. i use my name because i dont have anything to hide. as i get bitched at, i find i do leave out details that i take for granted are obvious at times though.



i have assembled and helped assemble n/a 635 hp on the first pull, with out of the box bg carb, 302 windsor based engines, and feel it gives me no authority for anything in this topic.

i also under stand and demand for a stout long life build squaring and decking is a must along with top of the line balancing and basic blueprinting at the minimum....this in most places today is around 1000 to 1200 and thats if you live close to a shop you trust..and you better not be in too big of a hurry either and we have not even put a parts list together...just machine work...i have two tanks of gas to do that now if i want to build a engine where i live..

so doing parts selection and assembly my self on a standard stroke 302 base engine can easily run over 4 grand, and is a big reason i push people to look at modern low mile takeouts, for installation expenses i can swap in a modern 350 hp powertrain for what it costs to have good custom headers for a 302 swap made. and trust me sir, i understand when your customer demands x in y then thats what we are doing...

but with the x in y, and your specific demands you painted yourself into the box, but there are other options sir.

headers....i have used many sets. typically i would use a hooker, bassani, or mac type shorty fox swap header. "351 windsor fox chassis swap" . there are log style oem type headers as well from the sn95 and later bird setups. these are easy to modify as well.

they have a sn95 header application which requires a minimum of frame modding. some rolling on the passenger and driver sides in a tib or ttb chassis i would argue increases the strength of the chassis and will be necessary.

taking thier time with a torch it will increase strength imo and look factory after its cleaned up and painted...i have even done it without a torch but it increases stress risers.

back when i first started doing this it was mostly mid length headers and they required at least a 1/2 inch cut out of the frame rail per instructions. plus they were shitty thin leaky flat gasket headers. so i experimented from there on a poor boy budget....and back then there was no internet and information was much harder to find.

after busting my frame up and rewelding i was strict with proper radius cutting and then after a few years went to rolling the rails...(when possible)



the other thing is actual engine mounts used and actual engine location which is dictated by many factors, usually costs and looks.


what fits good with a c4/d20 or 1350 t case wont with a aod/ f208 tcase.


i have put 454's in a sla chassis with no steering mods...but obviousy custom fenderwell headers...and cooling.


cost of custom headers verse a lil frame rolling, look at your situation with a set of headers from summit or something for mockup and go from there.

worst case send them back


not sure how tight for time you are but this guy wants to make some too, maybe contact and work with him, i have no problems shipping him stuff to work with.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1356519#post1356519

 

[green lantern]

well sir, i did not mean to offend you in the least... i am just a uneducated hillbilly, but i am speaking from experience, my name is bobby walter and i am a detroit area native. i use my name because i dont have anything to hide. as i get bitched at, i find i do leave out details that i take for granted are obvious at times though.



i have assembled and helped assemble n/a 635 hp on the first pull, with out of the box bg carb, 302 windsor based engines, and feel it gives me no authority for anything in this topic.

i also under stand and demand for a stout long life build squaring and decking is a must along with top of the line balancing and basic blueprinting at the minimum....this in most places today is around 1000 to 1200 and thats if you live close to a shop you trust..and you better not be in too big of a hurry either and we have not even put a parts list together...just machine work...i have two tanks of gas to do that now if i want to build a engine where i live..

so doing parts selection and assembly my self on a standard stroke 302 base engine can easily run over 4 grand, and is a big reason i push people to look at modern low mile takeouts, for installation expenses i can swap in a modern 350 hp powertrain for what it costs to have good custom headers for a 302 swap made. and trust me sir, i understand when your customer demands x in y then thats what we are doing...

but with the x in y, and your specific demands you painted yourself into the box, but there are other options sir.

headers....i have used many sets. typically i would use a hooker, bassani, or mac type shorty fox swap header. "351 windsor fox chassis swap" . there are log style oem type headers as well from the sn95 and later bird setups. these are easy to modify as well.

they have a sn95 header application which requires a minimum of frame modding. some rolling on the passenger and driver sides in a tib or ttb chassis i would argue increases the strength of the chassis and will be necessary.

taking thier time with a torch it will increase strength imo and look factory after its cleaned up and painted...i have even done it without a torch but it increases stress risers.

back when i first started doing this it was mostly mid length headers and they required at least a 1/2 inch cut out of the frame rail per instructions. plus they were shitty thin leaky flat gasket headers. so i experimented from there on a poor boy budget....and back then there was no internet and information was much harder to find.

after busting my frame up and rewelding i was strict with proper radius cutting and then after a few years went to rolling the rails...(when possible)



the other thing is actual engine mounts used and actual engine location which is dictated by many factors, usually costs and looks.


what fits good with a c4/d20 or 1350 t case wont with a aod/ f208 tcase.


i have put 454's in a sla chassis with no steering mods...but obviousy custom fenderwell headers...and cooling.


cost of custom headers verse a lil frame rolling, look at your situation with a set of headers from summit or something for mockup and go from there.

worst case send them back


not sure how tight for time you are but this guy wants to make some too, maybe contact and work with him, i have no problems shipping him stuff to work with.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1356519#post1356519

my comments were not directed towards you sir as you seem to be helpful and knowledgeable and you have an understanding as to the reality of my situation. I understand my options are limited I was just hoping someone had some knowledge of what would actually work. the truck is 4 wheel drive and does have the body still off so buying headers and making any necessary adjustments to get them to fit is not a problem . I was only thinking in terms of time and labor for custom vs buying a set off the shelf. Thank you for your advice Mr Walter

 

[dangerranger83]

My opinion, no. My personal experience and everybody else input that has got many other people help on what Is best for their application, yes.

Don't want people opinions and help on things, then don't ask. We are, once again, feeding you our experiences on our swaps based on what we did and what you asked based on the information given to us.

What was the time frame that you wanted to get an answer, two weeks? I would have asked and researched before getting started on the project.

Now if you do get the TM headers to work on your gen1 truck, then let us know how you did it so that if another person does ask this question, we can lead them to your information.

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[green lantern]

My opinion, no. My personal experience and everybody else input that has got many other people help on what Is best for their application, yes.

Don't want people opinions and help on things, then don't ask. We are, once again, feeding you our experiences on our swaps based on what we did and what you asked based on the information given to us.

What was the time frame that you wanted to get an answer, two weeks? I would have asked and researched before getting started on the project.

Now if you do get the TM headers to work on your gen1 truck, then let us know how you did it so that if another person does ask this question, we can lead them to your information.

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and what makes you an expert there danger ranger? all you gave was your opinion on parts used, nothing pertinent to my application and nothing useful or even knowledgeable so how were you being helpful ? I realize how forums work and I also realize that sometimes even though you may think your opinion matters in this situation it really does not. If you don't know what your talking about and you don't have an answer to the question maybe its best you not bother wasting my time and your own and let someone who actually does have knowledge on the subject answer.

 

[JoshT]

And if you are going to act as you are maybe its best you not bother wasting our time and your own and let someone who actually cares to gain the knowledge ask the questions.

 

[dangerranger83]

I never claimed to be an expert nor saying I am. He wants an answer to a question that there is no exact answer to, so your going to get opinions, suggestions, etc...

But they only real way your going to get an answer like this, get to working and get your hands dirty.

If the 5 grand has been put into the engine alone, I can only imagine what has been put into the trans let alone the rest of the truck, so 700 sounds like a drop in the barrel.

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[JoshT]

hate to break it to you but your dreaming if you think you can buy a professionally built motor for 2 grand. have you ever actually built any of the above for mentioned things or is it all in theory because it sounds to me like your full of maybes, and what ifs,but have no actual working knowledge. Everything your saying is based solely on what? you have not built this efi 347 cubic inch motor your bragging about but yet somehow your an expert? when you have actually built this motor then you can add your two cents but till then it really has nothing to do with my question and your just spouting off with useless witty banter to try and sound like you have a clue.

Not dreaming or thinking that I could buy a "professionally built" motor for 2 grand, but I wouldn't buy a built motor. I would build it my self, and do damn near as good of a job as that "professional builder" did at half the cost. If I were to buy a "professionally built" it damn sure wouldn't have GT40p heads on it and I'd expect to be spending alot more than 5 grand on it. Just because your paid 5 grand to have your motor built does not mean that it is a 5 grand motor, you may have 4 grand worth of labor into a grand worth of crap. Labor means nothing because what you could have preofessionally built in CA for $7,000 may cost me $5000 here in GA, similarly what I could buy on one side of the street for $5000 I may be able to get on the other side for $3000. Until you tell us what you actually have in the motor that dollar figure ain't saying shit.

No I have not built a 347, never intend to build a 347. Have I built a 302, no; have I built a motor, yes. Have I done alot of research into how/what to build and how to get it into an RBV platform, yes. I intend to build a forced induction 331 stroker, and with the components that forced induction will require I know that I will be spending more than I stated in my previous post. Never claimed to be an expert, but if you want expert advice and opinions the go payan expert for them.

What my useless whitty banter was trying to tell you is that I have a 302 engine with the same heads going into the same body style truck. The best fitting options are very overpriced if available TM headers, obsolete FMS headers, and factory explorer manifolds. That given what has been posted here in the past about your setup, your best option is the explorer manifolds. If blowing cash is what gets you off at night then by all means go buy some headers. Personally I put the header money someplace it matters, being able to stop.

 

[dangerranger83]

To the OP...

What numbers are you expecting to get out of your engine with what has been done to it? What all has been done to the engine? And why the choice of the gt40p heads then say the gt40 that only flow a few less CFMs a minute?

I have a buddy that has an explorer engine in his 2001 ranger that has the TM headers. He said they fit perfectly.

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