"franken-lima" build idea...

[19bonestock88]

so, i have come to an idea of where i want to take my truck, as far as engine goes... i want to find a 2.3 short block and an early 2.3 head(or reuse my 2.0 one) and build a "stage 1.5 engine" out of it. i am hoping for a stage one or two cam, forged pistons, mildly ported head and intake, long tube header, and possibly up to 10 to 1 compression... i might end up going EFI, but could also end up just putting a weber DGEV carb on a ported 2bbl intake(the one off my 2.0).

i know i'm looking at using a pre 94 block and the pre 94 rods are forged, but i have another couple questions since you guys better understand the early engines than almost anyone else.

1. does the roller valvetrain used 89-up bolt into an early SP head? if not, what modification would need to me made? i have heard of conversions but haven't seen one...

2. could the factory EFI be used in conjunction with either the existing (2.0 and early 2.3) ignition system or an MSD ignition(that's box, coil, and dizzy) or would i have to use the TFI that came on an early EFI engine? or possibly i could use MegaSquirt?

3. i thought about building my own long tube header and building it paired pulse style so that i can run a "true" dual exhaust(unless i go with EFI, then it will be a single so that i can run just one O2 sensor) but which cylinders need to be paired? is it 1+4 and 2+3?

 

[4b316]

http://www.raceny.com/smf2/index.php?topic=29218.msg233658#msg233658 heres a good motor.Even with shipping you couldn't build it this cheap,give him a call

 

[19bonestock88]

that's a great deal. if it weren't for my present lack of such funds and that i want to actually put one together, i'd jump on it.

 

[19bonestock88]

bump for info request... look at post one

 

[Mark_88]

so, i have come to an idea of where i want to take my truck, as far as engine goes... i want to find a 2.3 short block and an early 2.3 head(or reuse my 2.0 one) and build a "stage 1.5 engine" out of it. i am hoping for a stage one or two cam, forged pistons, mildly ported head and intake, long tube header, and possibly up to 10 to 1 compression... i might end up going EFI, but could also end up just putting a weber DGEV carb on a ported 2bbl intake(the one off my 2.0).

i know i'm looking at using a pre 94 block and the pre 94 rods are forged, but i have another couple questions since you guys better understand the early engines than almost anyone else.

1. does the roller valvetrain used 89-up bolt into an early SP head? if not, what modification would need to me made? i have heard of conversions but haven't seen one...

2. could the factory EFI be used in conjunction with either the existing (2.0 and early 2.3) ignition system or an MSD ignition(that's box, coil, and dizzy) or would i have to use the TFI that came on an early EFI engine? or possibly i could use MegaSquirt?

3. i thought about building my own long tube header and building it paired pulse style so that i can run a "true" dual exhaust(unless i go with EFI, then it will be a single so that i can run just one O2 sensor) but which cylinders need to be paired? is it 1+4 and 2+3?

1. Yes, but you need the roller cam and all parts thereof...meaning followers...I am going to do this with the parts from my current head to put on an 87 non roller cam head...

2. Yes, you can turn your truck into a FI version very easily...but you'd probably want to change the head to a roller cam style with the appropriate intake et al...I've heard that 96 was a good year for flow and the best power...but it is 8 plugs so you'd have to do the entire conversion...unless you use an earlier 4 plug FI head and the appropriate parts...but it also means making sure you get all the necessary fuel line parts...maybe including the gas tank for models that had an in tank pump...I don't know why some were in tank while others simply did away with the pump but I don't really know enough about the variations to elaborate more...other than I don't see why an external low pressure fuel pump wouldn't work...other than impeding the return fuel line...which most of them require either way.

3. It may be a small gain for what you are going to do...HP wise...but dual exhausts are essentially twice the amount of work, twice the expense, and twice the headache if/when they rot out...

If you are going to spend money and time why not consider simply a single stainless steel exhaust system that is a bit wider than the stock...but not too much unless you are planning on serious head/cam/bottom end work...

If you've got money to burn (literally) then I will PM my address and you can send me some...I will send you videos of the work I do...lol

Other than that, it's nice to dream...but you probably should spend a bit of time reading build forums for the 2.3 to find out what, short of Turbo, would work best...there are dozens of them out there...or maybe PM Kenneth S about tips or suggestions...Mutant Pony used to be on here quite a bit and has a huge background in these engines...check for his posts and read up what he did to his...

It's out there...just a matter of what you want to do, how much you can afford to spend...and whether the truck you put this into is actually going to survive...

I hope that is at least something useful to you...

 

[19bonestock88]

actually that was extremely useful. i now know i am looking at getting the followers and such from an 89-up 2.3 and a cam from a similar year and not having to machine the head to accept them...

what i was meaning was, can the factory EFi be run independently of the factory ignition system?

and i have decided on just buying a pacesetter long tube header and not worrying about pairing pulses unless i plan to start with boost...

basically, i'm not aiming for a 13 sec 1320ft... but just a fun truck to drive... maybe 120hp at the wheels... if that

 

[Mark_88]

actually that was extremely useful. i now know i am looking at getting the followers and such from an 89-up 2.3 and a cam from a similar year and not having to machine the head to accept them...

what i was meaning was, can the factory EFi be run independently of the factory ignition system?

and i have decided on just buying a pacesetter long tube header and not worrying about pairing pulses unless i plan to start with boost...

basically, i'm not aiming for a 13 sec 1320ft... but just a fun truck to drive... maybe 120hp at the wheels... if that

All the FI models that I know of use a computer to control spark and injectors...the megasquirt system, from what I've read, uses the timing of the non FI engine to essentially squirt gas into the carb opening...

Not exactly sure to be honest, but I did read up on it a few months back and that's what it appeared to be...not complicated...and a few people on here have posted that it actually does work so if you want to run something like that you might want to check with their tech support if they have any...I found the article on line so it's also available if you want to read up on that...if you haven't already done so.

I'd considered that myself but decided against it simply because it wasn't going to change anything HP wise and I'd read that FI versions of the same engine essentially gained about 10 HP...and I'd imagine that depended on using the complete stock setup as opposed to patching one together.

That's probably another thing to consider...if something goes wrong with a component and you don't have the OBD to assist then troubleshooting becomes hit and miss...so using an entire stock setup with slight mods (like porting and polishing, longer duration cams, and head milling) would probably be best...

Personally, I like the simplicity of the carb setup...no sensors or computers to deal with...but getting more HP from them usually involves spending money on good performance parts up front...and then driving them with a bit of care so they last longer...

 

[Mikel89us]

My suggestion, take the crank and rods from a 2.5, put then in the 88-94 block. Buy forged pistons from esslingeracing.com (long rod kit) or racer walsh(stock rods). Use the FI off a 4 plug mustang (86-90) get the whole engine harness. Use a head off the Mustang as well. Shave .100" off the head and a good 5 angle valve job. Buy a roller cam, the .420 lift profile ( www.RacerWalsh.com ) Buy a header from Speedwaymotors.com and reduce it to 2.5 inch exhaust. DO NOT do true dual exhaust, i tried it, and it hurt performance sightly and was ungodly annoying to listen to. Buy a MLS head gasket from summit. And if you want to be able to unlock the full potential of this setup a quarterhorse tuner. When you get done you will be looking at ~11:1 compression ~190HP ~240ft lbs ~25mpg It will be a quite enjoyable setup.

 

[Mikel89us]

http://www.racerwalsh.zoovy.com/pro...Stage-1-Hyd-roller-camshaft-Ford-23L-OHC.html $400

http://www.racerwalsh.zoovy.com/product/RWA1568_3/pistons-030-9-1-5725.html (i stnd corrected, i cant remember where i found 2.5 pistons for the 5.5" rod aka stock 2.5, but they have long rod pistons and 5.2'" pistons that use stock 2.3 rods.) $400

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedflow-23-Ford-Pinto-Late-Model-Headers,31661.html $130

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c5369-040/overview/make/ford $80

http://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords.html $250 (plus you might have to buy software)

And i figure you can get the head harness and ECU for under $300

About $300 in machine work

This build will cost you ~$2,000 And you can get a bigger cam if you want to as long as you get the quarter horse and thats no extra charge VS the .420 lift. You have the potential to have a 250hp 2.5 running N/A and oozing badass out of its seams.

 

[19bonestock88]

My suggestion, take the crank and rods from a 2.5, put then in the 88-94 block. Buy forged pistons from esslingeracing.com (long rod kit) or racer walsh(stock rods). Use the FI off a 4 plug mustang (86-90) get the whole engine harness. Use a head off the Mustang as well. Shave .100" off the head and a good 5 angle valve job. Buy a roller cam, the .420 lift profile ( www.RacerWalsh.com ) Buy a header from Speedwaymotors.com and reduce it to 2.5 inch exhaust. DO NOT do true dual exhaust, i tried it, and it hurt performance sightly and was ungodly annoying to listen to. Buy a MLS head gasket from summit. And if you want to be able to unlock the full potential of this setup a quarterhorse tuner. When you get done you will be looking at ~11:1 compression ~190HP ~240ft lbs ~25mpg It will be a quite enjoyable setup.

wow...an entire build sheet, that's awesome! is that using the roller cam, or the flat tappet one? is that 190hp at the wheels or crank? can i run 91 octane gas at 11 to 1 compression?

 

[Mikel89us]

wow...an entire build sheet, that's awesome! is that using the roller cam, or the flat tappet one? is that 190hp at the wheels or crank? can i run 91 octane gas at 11 to 1 compression?

Lol yea i am drooling over this build, i want to do it myself so bad i can taste it. That is the roller cam, hence the $400 price tag. And i am currently running ~11:2:1 im my mustang 2.3 on 91-93 running 16* base advance timing. Pump gas works well in a high comp 2.3. I would have to say the 190 is crank HP. figure 150 at the wheels with an auto, 160 manual. I left out some obvious things too like bearings and gaskets. thats why i said $2k. If i were building this i would actually buy the long rod kit from esslinger racing, comes with 5.7" rods and pistons for $650 but IMO its worth the extra $250

 

[DJ2.3]

Has that 240ft lb been documented? that seems like a bit of a stretch... the poor rear tires... One thing i will add it that you can use the engine wiring from a 92-94 ranger 2.3 and use a 92-93 mustang 2.3 ecu and still have full tuning with a 1/4 horse. And while the single plug mustang head might be the better, you can still get some decent flow from the dual plug head with some porting.

 

[19bonestock88]

One thing i will add it that you can use the engine wiring from a 92-94 ranger 2.3 and use a 92-93 mustang 2.3 ecu and still have full tuning with a 1/4 horse. And while the single plug mustang head might be the better, you can still get some decent flow from the dual plug head with some porting.

only reason i want the SP head is so that i might be able to run carbureted if i cant find a decent EFI setup...

Lol yea i am drooling over this build, i want to do it myself so bad i can taste it. That is the roller cam, hence the $400 price tag. And i am currently running ~11:2:1 im my mustang 2.3 on 91-93 running 16* base advance timing. Pump gas works well in a high comp 2.3. I would have to say the 190 is crank HP. figure 150 at the wheels with an auto, 160 manual. I left out some obvious things too like bearings and gaskets. thats why i said $2k. If i were building this i would actually buy the long rod kit from esslinger racing, comes with 5.7" rods and pistons for $650 but IMO its worth the extra $250

yeah, i've been browsing esslinger's site for a while, but haven't given much thought to a 2.5 build... and i was figuring a similar amount for a more modest build... basically i want more power than i have now, for the truck to be slightly quicker than my daily, but to also have enough bottom end to occasionally use it as a truck. what's your power curve look like? i would like to have some useable bottom end as well as a high power output... 160 whp sounds pretty nasty considering i'm starting with a "stripper" 88 ranger "s" and before i started adding stuff(stereo, better seats, and other stuff), it scaled 2900 with me in it...

 

[Mikel89us]

The last time i dynoed my car it was bad, honestly bad, i had a turbo on it with low compression and low boost. The torque curve on a 2.3 is pretty much flat, they are stout little motors. And I dont have the 240 documented, but the numbers i get are from a guy that has been building 2.3s longer than ive been driving. His current street toy is a supercharged 2.7 with 430 HP and 525 FT LBS. He knows his way around a 2.3 block. He has told me that the 2.3 is very capable of 200 HP N/A with ease. He was running that 2.7 N/A and was putting 275 at the wheels before he did the S/C build.

 

[DJ2.3]

Yea i'm on MM too, i must have missed the thread where ohc talks about how much you can get from a n/a 2.5. We need to get him on TRS he is a genious when it comes to 2.3 performance.