factory Block parts C80E vrs E08E

[Angie]

"Mine Reads DHxxxxxx" <<<<< guess what.... me too....


ok here is what I have figured out after some exploration.

I was able to get a cleaner look at the casting number on the block... EOAE not EO8E now this seems to change everything.

The piston tops are 4.0 intake ports are 1.85 X 1.02 valves 1.43 X 1.77

the con rods are D1OE ?? (haven't run the numbers to be 100% and pistons are D9AE0110 ??

pics to follow...... these must be 302 blocks sorry for not having the correct casting number from the start. Never meant to cause all the confusions.

Pete, any idea how strong these con rods are rated at?

 

[Mac]

That E08E is wrong, it would have a letter for the 3rd digit. Pete, are you saying an E0 block would only be a 255?
I have to agree with pete.... googled the E08E and came up with blocks ... then googled E0BE incase I read it wrong and found that that is casting numbers for straight 6 heads from 80-83
http://www.sixplusperformance.com/ford6castingindex.html

cheers

Angie, they is no way posible to tell what parts you are looking at with just the first four digits, those just basically tell the year and product line it was designed for. Need the next four digits to identify the part, 6015 for block and 6010 for cylinder head.
I was going to agree with Pete all the way until I started digging. He is right in that there were no 302's in the 80-81 Mustangs, they were 255's. Problem is that the big Fords did use the 302 those years, I believe from what I've seen they shared the same block casting number. Ford has done that several times in the past when the end results are close. The 221, 260 and Hi-Po 289 all shared the C3OE even thou the bores ranged from 3.50 to 4.00It's even worse with the FE series. Got a lot of that info saved but didn't want to clutter any more.
Dave

 

[PetesPonies]

There were 302s made in 1980, just not installed in Mustangs. But the 255 made its way in T-Birds as well.
But the 302s made didn't use an E0 block( not that I know ) they used a D* block. And you can't use the same block for both 255 and 302. As for the intake . . yes the ports were different and no you were not supposed to use an intake made for a "typical" Ford SB on a 255 . . but it might physically fit/bolt up. Just terrible port match.
The numbers on the back of the block were required from 1968 on . . although I have seen some without. Anyway, they are a partial VIN. But they tell you nothing about the engine. Just where it was made and the vehicle it was going in . . etc.
The casting numbers on a Ford SB do tell you the story about what the partt is. Be grateful. Ford FE engines do not. You can't tell crap from a casting number, as to what size engine it is. But the SB .. . is a slam dunk. Another important fact is the date code, when the part was cast. It will look like it had 2 screws, one at each end of the numbers. See if you can find those. On the blocks, it down where the casting numbers are.
Many times the same casting can be machined for different parts. head casting numbers, for example, can be the same whereas the dimensions of the valves are different. This would be a different part then. So you have to be careful for some things, heads are one. But the 255 block could not be used as a 302. The bore is a lot smaller and extra metal is not there to bore it out to the 302 size. So it's an oddball all to itself.

 

[Angie]

Ford didn't make engines easy to keep track of. Those numbers on the con rods are the engineering date, and designed in 71 and kept in use till (ie) 1990 or until a new(er) profile was needed. this is what i have been able to read anyway.

I have come to the conclusions from some research I have been reading that I will be sending the 68 block to the machine shop, this will be the one for building as you suggested.

Will be using the con rods (getting them machined to fit ARP bolts) from this motor also along with the STD bore Probe pistons, GT-40P heads, topped with a Offenhauser single plane 4 BBL, (carb not determined yet, no holley thou) Will send the crank off to get fully checked to see if it needs turning then buying under sized bearings if need be.

As for the cam and lifters I will be getting them custom ground to what ever the cam fellows suggest will give me best torque at max of about 5000 rpm engine. Headers I have long tube small diameter.

The red block 302 has 80 cast into the top valley so i am not sure if that is a casting year or what. If the casting numbers don't match a 80 stang could this motor have come out of one from 83-84 era? not that it matters really, just curious about it now.... but looks like it was the generic block that went into many vehicles. just guessing. Did the roller blocks all have sliders to hold the roller lifters in place or did they just reman the blocks already in circulation to add rollers? or is this where you talked about D9 blocks?

cheers

 

[PetesPonies]

On the rods . . not an engineering date, but an engineering number or casting numbers most call them. They will tell you the year the part was originally designed for and the division that made the design. Also it will tell some in house info ( last letter of the beginning 4 ).
There aren't any differences in any of the 302 rods to worry about. I think I said earlier, get new bolts and have them resized. That is what is needed for the rods.
Roller blocks had longer lifter bores and have two threaded holes in the valley to retain the roller lifter spider. A standard block can run a roller reto fit kit if you wanted. Bores are still shorter though, can't change that. A smaller diameter lobe can lower the lifters some. Also starting with the roller blocks, the heads had provisions to allow the removal of the end roller lifters without the heads having to be removed. So an E5 head is dimensionally the same as a D9 head, but if you run the D9, you cannot remove the end lifters with the head on the engine. The E5 would allow this. Maybe not a big deal, but it is a change Ford made for servicing the engines.
Dates are not numbers cast around the block at any place. Like I said before, you need to look for the number with a screw head at each end. It is under where the casting number is. That is the date . . not some number anywhere else.
I have used GT-40p heads several times. They are an easy 25hp gain. But head choice is very limited. I have made non-40p headers work, but its tricky and would depend on the application. It was much easier when I used special headers for the P heads.You would be best seeing if GT-40p headers are available for you. If not, stick with GT-40 or early 351W heads (sames as a GT-40 ).

 

[Angie]

Great info thanks pete....

couple more questions. what is the deal with the rear sump oil pan and rear pick up? is that the pan i should be looking at using . rather than the front pan?

with the headers, i was able to line them up to the exhaust ports on the P heads and they look like there wont be any probs with the fitment. they are long pipe at least 2.5 -3 feet slope down and out. placing the motor, trans, exhaust should be fairly easy to build into the frame. planning on off frame build on this truck to keep everything going in problem free.... (lol) famous last words I know....heehee

That other motor that is red... is that a factory red? still trying to figure out that. i expect to see side by side middle exhaust ports....lol. you have any ideas?


cheers

 

[PetesPonies]

There are "basically" two passenger car SB oil pans and a truck pan. The car pans are either a front sump or a double sump ( which is mostly a rear sump as the front portion is very small ). The double sumps are the ones that came on Fox body cars with a 302. You can't run a front sump, you need the rear. So a truck pan or a Fox body pan will work. It can be a bit tricier, as oil dip sticks changed locations over the years . some when in pans, some on the side of the block and some in the front cover. So you have to have pieces that work together. I used a Fox body pan and it fit fine . . close . . but it fit

 

[Angie]

good point on the dipstick, never thought about that. the 68 is in front, the other is side mounted....

how did you work around that?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

good point on the dipstick, never thought about that. the 68 is in front, the other is side mounted....

how did you work around that?

1979 Mustang had the dual sump pan with the dipstick tube in the pan, you can still get new ones.

My dual sump is very tight. In my swap (they all vary) I think I could have gotten away with a front sump (before I put the Explorer front belt drive on it)

 

[Angie]

1979 Mustang had the dual sump pan with the dipstick tube in the pan, you can still get new ones.

i need to check the pan, maybe i have it already... never paid it any attention till now that it being mentioned....

(i could also drill in the hole and braise up the tube.. this would work too)

thanks

cheers

 

[PetesPonies]

The dip stick issue has lots of variables. YOu can use a front cover from many years of engines. If you need an mechanical fuel pump, then you need one that has that provision. But even some had the area for it, but wasn't cut out, you just cut it out. Early 80s covers had the fuel pump area but the dip stick in the block or pan, so you could use that cover. Or you remove the tube from your cover and plug it, use the one in the pan. Or use the tube in the front cover and plug the hole in the block, or plug the holes in the pan or weld the hole . . get the idea? Lots of ways to do it.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Lots of opportunities to mix and match....so how do you go about making sure about the level on the dipstick? Can you measure off the bottom of the block down a certain amount and transfer measurement to dipstick? If so, how much? Just below the crank throws?

Richard

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

If you use a dual or rear sump pan you have to have a dipstick either in the block or pan.

All a front dipstick will tell you is that you have the cup to a cup and a half of oil needed to fill the front sump. You will also need to swap out a main cap bolt for one with a stud made into it to support the pickup. Moroso offered them in Jegs IIRC if you can't turn one up.

Same goes for a block mounted dipstick with a front sump pan, it just don't work because there is nothing there.

I didn't have room for a mechanical pump, some covers (like the Explorer and 94-95 Mustang) don't have room for the cam that runs the pump anyway. And you have to keep track of what water pump goes to what because they can be specific to the cover...

 

[PetesPonies]

You use the correct dip stick and tube for the position that you use, that's all. Beyond that, all you would have to do is fill the engine with the correct amount of oil, start it and fill the filter, then turn i t off. The level that is on your dipstick will be the correct level. But the sticks are different lengths depending on where they are mounted, so you need one that is "about" the right length anyway.

Another thing going back to the oil pans. . . . if you out a rear sump pan on your engine, don't forget that you need to use a longer pickup and you need a main stud that secures that longer pickup as well. You move the sump, but the oil pump is still mounted up front. There are kits available that have the pickup, stud and nut.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Lots of opportunities to mix and match....so how do you go about making sure about the level on the dipstick? Can you measure off the bottom of the block down a certain amount and transfer measurement to dipstick? If so, how much? Just below the crank throws?

Richard

Put in its rated capacity and measure would probably be the easiest.