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EGR Valve or not???


e21pilot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
171
Vehicle Year
1992
Transmission
Manual
My NOx readings are getting close to the max on my recent smog test and I'm investigating possible causes. One of the trouble spots could be a faulty EGR valve -- or not if my truck doesn't have one!

I want to know if a 1992 4.0 with Federal emissions had an EGR valve or not? I can't seem to find one under the hood and wonder if there was one originally or if one the PO's removed it for some reason.
 
Auto Zone app shows an egr gasket and pressure sensor for the 92 4.0, but no egr valve. It does show those parts plus an egr valve for my 98 4.0. Not conclusive, but it's a start. Check Rockauto.com too.
 
My NOx readings are getting close to the max on my recent smog test and I'm investigating possible causes. One of the trouble spots could be a faulty EGR valve -- or not if my truck doesn't have one!

I want to know if a 1992 4.0 with Federal emissions had an EGR valve or not? I can't seem to find one under the hood and wonder if there was one originally or if one the PO's removed it for some reason.

You should have a sticker under the hood that lists your emissions equipment.

If the EGR is shut off on an OBII truck it will throw a CEL
 
If it's a 92 though he has obd1. I wouldn't be too surprised if it doesn't. My 93 3.0 doesn't have one from the factory despite every ford dealer telling me that it's supposed to have one.
 
92 Federal shouldn't have EGR. I have a 92 Federal 4.0 in my 87 and it has no provisions for EGR.
 
I just looked at the 93 EVTM.

Neither Federal nor CA 4.0 had EGR in 93, so I suspect your 92 didn't either.
 
High NOx levels comes from higher combustion chamber temperatures.

EGR system lowers combustion temps, which is why they are used.

Other cause of the higher temps is a leaner fuel/air mix, this can be from O2 sensor issue, sending computer false "rich" data or vacuum leak.

Incorrect spark timing can cause higher combustion temps.

Carbon build up in the cylinders and the back of the intake valve leads to higher temps.
Carbon on the intake valve absorbs fuel, so leans the fuel/air mix
Carbon in the cylinder raises compression also lowers the transfer of heat out of the cylinder.

Pinging, pre-ignition, is often a sign of cylinders running too hot, and pinging makes them even hotter.
 
These are some good textbook tips on high NOx numbers:

EGR system lowers combustion temps, which is why they are used
-- Not all engines have EGRs so I wonder if there is an alternately
-- way doing this or at least lowering NOx numbers even if the
-- combustion chamber is hot.

Other cause of the higher temps is a leaner fuel/air mix, this can be from O2 sensor issue, sending computer false "rich" data or vacuum leak.
-- I just replaced the O2 senser with a new OE one before the smog test.
-- Not likely the problem and the engines runs silky smooth now that I
-- have done so.

Incorrect spark timing can cause higher combustion temps.
-- Is there a way to set the spark timing on a first gen 4.0?

Carbon build up...
-- This sounds like it could be the problem. The 4.0 has 244K miles on it.
-- Changed the oil, ran a can of seafoam in the crankcase for 200 miles
-- and the oil came out black like graphite. Changed the oil again, did
-- same and the oil still came out pretty dirty.
-- Does dirty engine imply excessive carbon build up? What to do about it?

Pinging, pre-ignition, etc.
-- I am running Chevron 91 octane and engine is very quiet with no
-- pinging that I can detect.


Lastly, there is part on the 4.0 V6 called a EGR Pressure Feedback Sensor (Motorcraft # DPFE-10) Not sure where this goes or what it really does in the way of the EGR functions. Wondering if anyone knows and if this is ever a part that needs replacing.
 
I would run regular 87 octane fuel, and see if you have any pinging.
Octane numbers are "heat" ratings, not energy ratings, so a gallon of 87 octane and a gallon of 91 octane have the same energy, so same MPG.
The higher octane just has a higher self-ignition heat rating, so 87 octane will self-ignite at a lower temp than 91 octane.
On lower compression engines(like the 4.0l at 9:1) 87 octane should run fine with no pinging, when an engine is at 10:1 and up compression, 87 octane would ping.
Carbon build up on the piston top and head reduces the size of the chamber so compression ratio changes, it goes up, so pinging with lower octane number.

Often regular gas has ethanol or similar added(10%), this actually raises the octane(self-ignition temp) but reduces the energy per gallon, but not by much, maybe 2%-3%.
91 octane fuel often has additives for cleaning injectors, IMO, the price per gallon isn't worth it when you can add a can of Seafoam to the tank once a year($8) and get the same results.
Octane numbers have nothing to do with "burning cleaner" either, if you were to run two similar engines, one on 87 octane and the other on 91 octane for 50,000 miles then pulled off the heads, the cylinders would look the same, all other things being equal.


NOx numbers are really only an air quality concern, EGR systems were not added for any engine function, non-EGR engines were simply not required to meet the lower NOx numbers where they were first sold.
However......EGR systems can improve MPG when you add computer control with EFI, O2 sensors and DIS(distributorless ignition), this is because a leaner mix can be used under load without causing pinging when exhaust gas is added to the intake air.

Running a richer mix lowers cylinder temps, retarding the timing lowers cylinder temps.
The 4.0l uses DIS so spark timing is not adjustable without computer changes.
Same with EFI system, no real control over fuel/air mix, although you can sometimes highjack the ECT sensor to tell the computer the engine is cold :).
This will cause computer to run a richer mix with advanced timing.


The oil condition doesn't really tell you cylinder condition, carbon build up in the cylinders is on the piston top and head, so not in places oil should be :)
Carbon build up comes from engine running rich over a long period, or constant misfires leaving unburned fuel in the cylinders, even cheap oil that vaporizes and is sucked into the engine via the PCV valve.
Dirty injectors drip fuel instead of spraying fuel so all fuel isn't burned.


Spark plugs that have been in a long time can tell you about carbon build up, because it builds up on the spark plug end as well.
There are methods to clean out carbon build up in cylinders, without removing the heads, but I have never tried them, others here have.

Compression test can often tell you about carbon build up, but certainly not a definitive test, 4.0l should have compression numbers no higher than 180 psi, if you see numbers higher than that then there is significant carbon build up.

Lower fuel pressure can lean out fuel mix and at higher rpm raising cylinder temp and NOx.

DPFE sensor, if you have an EGR system, will be Black and have 2 vacuum hoses, one going to the EGR valve, and an electrical connector going to the computer.
The computer opens the valve inside this to pass vacuum to the EGR Valve to open it.
 
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Lots of good info coming in...

So the DPFE sensor is the computers way of controlling the EGR valve. There definitely appears to be a DPFE sensor on the pre-OBDII 4.0 engines, however there doesn't seem to be an EGR valve that anyone can locate.

Is there really an EGR function somewhere on the engine or is the DPFE sensor used for sensing (a computer input) rather than controlling an EGR valve which doesn't seem to be present?
 
Check your timing chain for slop pull the distributor cap and with a wrench turn the crank clockwise and then slowly backwards a little until the rotor turns there should only be a few degrees from clockwise to counterclockwise before the rotor moves.
 
Sounds like no EGR valve is present. I'm told there is a DPFE sensor present but I can't imagine what it would be used for?

Getting back to my original question about high NOx numbers, it seemed the EGR was the most likely problem, however since there is no EGR and the engine runs cool, does that just leave the cat as the problem? It does have 244K and I assume it has to wear out at some point.
 
The 1992 4.0l should only have 1 O2 sensor on the "Y" pipe, these do wear out without a total failure so no CEL, could be causing engine to run a bit leaner which causes higher NOx levels, recommended change on these is 70-100k miles, I have 300k on mine, lol, but might be worth changing if it is not too expensive.
Fuel pressure being lower than the 30psi levels could also cause leaner mix.
Vacuum leak causes leaner mix.
MAF sensor can cause leaner mix, worth cleaning.

Hotter cylinder temps won't cause overheating on the temp gauge, if they got that hot then you would get lots of pinging just before the pistons melted :)
Might go up a bit like when driving up a long uphill grade, load on engine heats up cylinders, that is normal.

Cat converter does more work on the HC levels than NOx, so if both were high then I would suspect Cat, just higher NOx then probably not, but just guessing without testing :)
 
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Back to my original smog test results:

attachment.php


Seems like NOx is high but not HC. That would probably rule out the cat even though it is original. Also the fuel pump and fuel filter are both new Motorcraft parts so I can assume fuel pressure is OK -- it does start pretty quick and has plenty of power.

That just leaves the MAF sensor and the ubitquious vacuum leak problem. I have already replaced the intake tube and cleaned out the throttle body. I might just replace the MAF given its age.

What about vacuum leaks? Is there a known source of vacuum leaks on these high mileage 4.0's?
 

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