INFO Dana 35 TTB vs Wheel Bearings

[Shran]

Well how similar are second gen Ram D44 knuckles to TTB Ford knuckles?

Do the deal to a D44 knuckle swap but use Ram knuckles instead of Ford and then you have bolt on wheel bearings and are only custom shafts away from having something.

Looking at Rockauto quick it looks like the U-joint at the knuckle are the same size, just swap Ram outers onto the TTB shafts...

Brakes for the ram would bolt right onto the Ram knuckle, rotor wouldn't know any different, still has the 5x5.5 bolt pattern like a fullsize Ford.

Sounds too easy, I bet the knuckle has to be different.

That was kind of what I was getting at. I have no idea how similar they are.

The other thing I had in mind was using a unit bearing from a car with 5x4.5 bolt pattern (90's Chrysler maybe or Jeep D30/D44 parts - a TJ Rubicon D44 would have 5x4.5 bolt pattern but probably really expensive) that could be attached to the D35 knuckle and finding a rotor that would line up with the D35 caliper in its normal location. If you can get to that point, you still have to find a shaft and locking hub if you want one.

Wonder if you could use TJ Rubicon D44 knuckles on a D35.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

That was kind of what I was getting at. I have no idea how similar they are.

The other thing I had in mind was using a unit bearing from a car with 5x4.5 bolt pattern (90's Chrysler maybe or Jeep D30/D44 parts - a TJ Rubicon D44 would have 5x4.5 bolt pattern but probably really expensive) that could be attached to the D35 knuckle and finding a rotor that would line up with the D35 caliper in its normal location. If you can get to that point, you still have to find a shaft and locking hub if you want one.

Wonder if you could use TJ Rubicon D44 knuckles on a D35.

Initial googlage shows TTB D44 and solid D44 knuckles are different, I haven't found what is different.

At least with the old school solid axle stuff things swap around between brands.

I still like the idea of the Dodge knuckles the best. Wheel bearing and brakes will mount to that, Dodge outer stub shaft would mate with the D35 inner shafts and everything.

One big kind of eh thing with a sealed bearings on a D35 is that would make it live and the shafts would run full time.

 

[don4331]

Now I wonder what it would take to get a D30 or later D44 unit bearing setup onto a 35 TTB,,,

lol, I was actually looking at the reverse for my '99+ Ranger: How to put Dana 35 or 44 spindle in place of the Unit bearing so the axles didn't run all the time.

Note: For all intents and purposes the D30 and RBV D35 unit bearing are the same (there are minor differences, but the bolt pattern and the spline count are identical so you may use the alternative on the trail to get you to where you can get the correct part.)

Also note, all Dana 44s are do not have the same bearings: for reference: Dana 28 has Timken Set 45 for both inner and outer; Dana 35 has Timken Set 37 again same for inner and outer.

You have Dana 44s with Set 37 inner and Set 45 outer​

You have Dana 44s with JLM104910/LM104949 inners and Set 45 outer (3/4 ton axles with 8x6.5 pattern)​

I haven't come across Dana 44s with Set 37 inner and outer, but it might be possible..​

​

Also Dana 30s have Set 47 inners and Set 45 outers...which would be an interesting subtle strength increase for the Dana 35 axle..

 

[SenorNoob]

I wonder if you could get crazy and do something like a 30/44 unit bearing with the splines milled out and use an old style d44 outer shaft with the heavy duty 35 locking hub...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I wonder if you could get crazy and do something like a 30/44 unit bearing with the splines milled out and use an old style d44 outer shaft with the heavy duty 35 locking hub...

I thought about that, you would need a bearing/seals or something to support the shaft inside the bearing and you can't just swing into O'Reillys or whatever in the middle of nowhere and grab a new bearing.

 

[Shran]

Now that I'm reading a bit more about the Dodge stuff it looks like that is not going to work. They have the ball joints pressed into the C's on the housing as opposed to the knuckles. Bummer.

Edit - Jeep seems to be the same thing. Probably explains why it hasn't been done.

 

[4x4junkie]

Wish I had come upon this thread a little sooner... There's a lot of speculating here

I had seen someone here mention before that they don't use the races that come in a new brake rotor, they use the races that come with the new bearings.

Correct.
This is a big part of why (if not the whole why itself) we see the number of problems we do on the D35... Brake manufacturers putting bearing races into their rotors (usually cheap chinese races too), but not providing any matching cones to go with them (and so has nothing to do with the actual spacing of the bearings).
Obviously this prompts people to source (unmatched) cones from someplace else, and well... We wind up here (and you can't blame the end users either... It's perfectly normal for one to assume since it's there, "it must be ok to use").

I always try to tell people to replace that race with one from a Timken or other quality brand bearing set.
In 35 years (where have they all gone?? lol) of working on these for myself and for friends, we've had exactly one bearing failure among us... It was a friend's rig about 8 months after he decided to take it upon himself to go have brake work done at a shop (brake rotors replaced, new pads, etc.). When I took things apart, sure as shit, the races said "CHINA" and the cones said "U.S.A.".
We put Timken SET-37s on both sides and no issues since (this was maybe 15 years ago).
All of our rigs are on 33-35" tires too.

So yes it is very possible to have the axle be reliable in its stock config, but you can't let the rotor manufacturers sabotage you.
Used to be common knowledge not to mix these parts... (that was one of the first things my granddad told me when I was barely a teenager working on my ATC-70) Apparently that has all gone out the window with the D35 (or maybe was it the D28?).


This picture is misleading (and a little annoying):

I don't know who took the pic or where it came from, but I know that it has been floating around on here and on the 'net for awhile...
That is completely NOT how the bearings are on the D35 (yes, they are closer than on a D44, but they absolutely are not right up against each other like that, they are separated by about ⅜").

If I had both a D35 and D44 spindle & some bearings on hand that were loose, I'd take a more-accurate picture, but unfortunately I have neither available at the moment.
But again the spacing is not the primary issue here.


On some of the comments about other stuff:

Locknuts and the washer (manual hub setup):
Lately I've been laying a small bit of weld on the inside edge of the lock ring opposite of the tab, then shaping smooth with a Dremel or similar tool.
Aftermarket washers (all that we have today I think) don't fit as tightly around the spindle as the OEM ones did 30 years ago. A little bit of weld tightens up the fit, forcing the tab to rest further down into the groove so that it can't ride up out of the groove as easily and damage the spindle threads (I always put the weld opposite the tab so as not to ruin the temper of the metal on the tab itself).
Then tighten the outer nut to 225ft-lbs (75 above book spec).

Water contamination:
I try to fill the entire bearing cavity with as much grease as I can when I grease them. Obviously the locking hub itself can't be packed full, but I try to fill as much void as I can. This seems to at least reduce (if not completely stop) water from getting in.
This happens because it is a sealed cavity (and can similarly happen to cartridge (D30 or SLA IFS) bearings too).
When the warm hub (from brake heat) gets dunked into water, the sudden cooling creates a vacuum inside the air space within, and that is what sucks water in past the seals.
The most common seal to be breached by water seems to be the axle shaft seal at the back of the spindle, but others such as the wheel bearing seal itself can allow water in as well.
Beyond packing as much grease in as you can, there's not really much else you can do (I don't see any good practical ways to vent that space to the atmosphere with a breather hose).

 

[Curious Hound]

I completely forgot to mention replacing the outer races. It has been standard for me to always use matched bearing sets for so long that I rarely think about it.

Good idea on welding the washer. Thanks. I wish the outer housung had a bigger bore so that a normal tabbed washer could be used. I've tried. It doesn't fit unless you cut off all the unused tabs. By the time you do that, it's almost a "one time use" thing and defeats the purpose of the multi-tab washer.