CompCams camshaft# 49-410-8

[Exploder]

Hello everyone,

I just found the site

I'm considering using this cam in my basically stock rebuild. This is a daily driver and needs to pass emissions.

I would like to know A) what are the odds it will pass if all else is stock. and B) will it run decent with an auto trans.

I'm looking for a little more low to mid power for pulling my boat. I'm open to other cam suggestions as well.

Thanks

 

[gamble71]

it'll work fine with the auto. Comps makes two cams for the 4.0 This one is for a basic rebuild, the other (422) is when you need a stick or stall speed. I thought about using this one myself, but have decided a V8 swap makes more since in the end.

 

[Exploder]

Thank you,

What about the emissions though? Has anyone had any issues passing, running this cam?

The reason I ask is; Comp Cams, both advertises it as a stock replacement, but also says " it should work, but we can't guarantee..."

The local parts stores advertise it as "ilegal for emission controlled vehicles"

I know most of the mod's etc... here are fore off road and passing emission is not a concern. Since this is a daily driver I have to worry about it.

Thanks

 

[gamble71]

emissions I can't say. I'm pretty sure it'll pass.. but can't give ya a guarantee on that one. Try finding a "friendly" shop to test ya.

 

[Exploder]

I was going to let this die, but I'm getting close to ordering a cam (Heads will be home from the machine shop on Friday)
Besides I have a hard time believing no one has at least tried to run this cam in a "smog legal" vehicle.

"Friendly" shops in happy valley are sometimes hard to come by. Besides I don't want to screw the next owner.

Is there no one out there that has ran this cam w/and otherwise stock motor and had it checked out by the smog cops

Swaping cams in this thing is too much damn work in my book, to just swap it out if it won't pass.



Tanks in advance, as usual for your input.

 

[gamble71]

go over to explorer4x4. There's a couple guys built 4.0's over there who should know

 

[Exploder]

I tried explorer4x4 and I guess I need to change my cologne or wear something low cut for them folks. At 1st I got similar type responses but now, all I'm getting is the sound of crickets in the background.

It seems that eveyone with a built 4.0 either has an offroad only, or they magically don't have to pass emissions. Or they know the man with the friendly shop.

I'd really like to run that cam as I pull my boat a lot in the summer, but I don't want to throw it in and then find out I have to dick w/the computer to get it to run.. then Dick with the intake, exhaust, ignition, compression, homebrew fuel etc... all the joys of playing w/a HP motor. (I did enough of that sh*t setting up my boat, now I just want to play)

If I can run it, pass emissions, and not have to re-engineer and configure the whole set up it would be nice. I'd really like to have more pulling power.

 

[gamble71]

well, last resort, call summit and talk to one of their reps. for the 410 the rest of the engine can stay stock, the computer won't even trigger the check engine light. I'm 99% sure it'll pass emissions but not 100%

 

[Exploder]

Just in case anyone is interested, here's the skinny.

I dedided to take your advice and give Summit and Jegs a call. Since I had already checked w/Comp directly before I found this site, and Per, Comp's helpline it "it should, its not that big. ...."

Per Summit: "Don't know? We mostly deal w/v8's I wouldn't even venture a guess..."

Per Jegs: "No" "Comp lists this as an off road only, pre emissions, it will not pass...."

So.... unless someone can give me a testimonial endorsment that they have passed running this cam (looking at the emissons read out would help convince me too) it looks like I get to run the stocker

Although, I'm convinced it would most likley pass, I'm just not willing to assemble the thing, put it in and then cross my fingers and then pull it back out to swap cams if it does not.
Too much freaking time and work for me.

Although, I would be very interested in finding out what happens to emissions readings when toulene is introduced into 91 octane, or even ethanol, or some intriguing combination.

Any one have any personal experiance with that?

 

[MAKG]

If you've been reading that wacky myth about a teaspoon of toluene getting 100 MPG, it's not going to do anything to emissions. Or anything else.

Ethanol is an "oxygenate" and is supposed to reduce emissions. However, you need nearly proportionally more fuel to get the same distance, so it's quite close to a wash.

91 octane should NEVER be used in an engine designed for 87 octane. It will run no better and can run worse. You use 91 octane when you can't control detonation any other way.

It's generally illegal in the US (Clean Air Act) to mix your own gasoline for use on the highway. There are certain additives that have been allowed.

As for what to do to make towing easier, the engine is not the most cost effective way to do it. A shift kit is probably cheapest (or just turning the OD off), followed by gear changes. All you need to do to save your transmission is keep the torque converter locked and the cooling system working.

 

[gamble71]

pre-emissions They didn't start making the 4.0 til 91. I say go for it.

 

[Exploder]

MAKG,

This will prob come off wrong, but oh well. I hate getting pat on the head, or smoke up the skirt and that is how your post came off to me. If it was not meant that way then I apologize up front.

I appreciate you concern for the clean air act, and my ability to remain a law abiding citizen, but ... Well that's a different discussion that might get everyone excited.

Yeah I've read the toluene stuff, MPG was not my thought, though (yeah, I'm aware it BS). My chemistry classes tell me different compounds have different emissions when they burn. So to tell me toluene would have 0 effect on emissions read out makes me want to shout out: B*ll *hIT really loud. I might easily be convinced it would not make a modified motor pass a test, or that the person testing would refuse to complete the test.... Alcohol is one of the cleanest burning compounds there is, but it's damned dangerous when it comes to fires and other stuff in cars.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with 98% of your assessment of 87 vs 91 octane in cars / trucks. The small part I will agree is that you will see very little if any noticeable difference running either. The difference being A) when towing. B) emissions time. I have personally seen the same car fail on regular, and squeak by on premium in the same day at the same shop. When nothing else was done other than run the old tank out, and run about 10mi on premium.
The other difference is when towing, in every vehicle I have ever towed with I will run cooler up steep grades, and pull better with 91 vs 87 and I put a lot of miles on my vehicles.

The higher octane rating give the fuel a slower and cleaner burn rate, It will not magically break your car.

I'm well aware that a "shift kit" will improve the life if a tranny that is experiencing heavy duty / extreem usage, but it will do nothing to improve torque, or pulling capacity. Heavy duty clutches and stuff like that will though. Besides I have the motor apart not my tranny (I did that 2 yrs ago) . I'm also well aware that if I drop lower gears in I will drastically change my pulling, crawling, and handling of any vehicle. Again, I have the motor apart, not the whole vehicle. I'm looking for bang for the buck. I disagree that the others are more cost effective. I done this stuff for too long to believe that one.

I have 200k on the present motor that is apart now. I had 250k on the 90 explorer that I recently sold. (I towed my 21ft boat for 3yrs with it. 3X per wk. 3X to Lake Powell from SL) I have 180k on my 69 3/4 ton Ford Explorer camper special. 90% of those miles have been with a 12' camper and 21' boat. It has been driven from NY to SL round trip. When I sold my Geo I had 350k Mi on it. I have 300k on my 74 camaro (not stock 350). I have a Olds 461 that is very custom and put's out just under 500hp in my boat.

Point is I built the motor in every single one of them. I know how build stuff to last, and I don't baby shit either. I build it for how I intend to use it. I have a pretty good idea of what sh*t is a real performance part, what is for pretty, and what is just a gimmick.

I have desk top dyno and several years of personal experience building modifying. I also have access to my fahter who is a retired mechanic that rec'd his 1st certs for mechanic'n in the 50's and has worked on / built everything from 29 chev, superchared diesels, 99 supras, everyhting pontiac form 86-90 to 02 Tarus. Between his garage and mine there are a lot of special tools you will not find in your average shade tree mechanic's garrage.

With that in mind it has annoyed the h**l out of me that I am having difficulty contacting anyone that has had that damned cam on the smog sniffer. I want to get my Dora back on the road so I can go Elk hunting in 3 wks.

 

[MAKG]

Dude, the reason toluene won't make a difference to emissions from combustion is that it's a teaspoon in 20 gallons. Even if it's very dirty, it's washed out by normal combustion.

If you don't think a shift kit will improve your total vehicle's performance, you REALLY need to learn how torque and acceleration are related. The engine output doesn't matter. Only the torque at the AXLES determines acceleration. You can improve that at a given speed by modifying the engine OR by using a lower gear in the transmission or rear end. Your vehicle doesn't give a flying F which it is. Except you can easily get over 10% (even up to around 30%) by messing with gearing (including the transmission), and doing that with an engine is ridiculously expensive.

Sorry you don't like to be talked down to, but you are making an absolutely elementary error here.

How do you disagree with 98% of a point that has three equal parts? And I would hope you're aware that octane is PRECISELY defined in terms of detonation alone. Gasoline is very far from a simple mixture of octane and heptane.

 

[Exploder]

Here we go folks. Welcome the special olympics of internet arguing.
Grab your popcorn.

Let's try to compare apples and apples, not go off on some tangent.

For starters: The reason I'm dicking with the "ridiculously expensive" engine mod's is the fact that I have the motor appart for a rebuild. You see after 200k mi. I the a valve seals that decided they were tired, this tends to make a motor smoke a little. I also have had the wonderfull ticking sound of worn rockers for the last 20k. When I mic'd the cam it's worn way beyond tolerances. So since I have to replace the cam anyways, I liked the idea of replacing it with something that would complement the intended usage and the rest of the drive train. It is really not adding to the expense.

I'm not sitting here dreaming of ways to make my explorer jump small buildings. I'm simply rebuilding a worn out motor. Something I would be doing regardless of changing cam's

Please do tell the class just how Torque, Horsepower, acceleration are all related. Especially the part how "engine out put is not important". Silly me, if I had only known the engine output was not important, I would have removed my engine a long time ago. After all if it's not important it must just be dead weight, and I could really use the extra room for more wheel'n gear.

If engine output is not important, why is eveyone trying to stuff a v8 where their v6 was? Why is everyone dicking with chip's, airbox's, and ignitions?

Why is the majority of the crap sold in Summit, Jeg's, PAW, etc... all geard toward increasing engine output?

Now to your insightful crack about shift kit's and "total performance" Where the H**l did you get the idea that I dont understand that? Where did you get the idea that I don't under stand that certain tranny mods will drasticly improve the life of a tranny? I'm talking about my motor. Not my tranny. If I had tranny questions, or gearing questions I would have asked them. Besides a shift kit will not magically increase the capacity of what it can handle or how fast it will accelerate from a dead stop. It will magically improve ET's on the drag strip and how long it can handle it's max capacity, because of how it shifts and locks up. It can help with many other things, but unless you mess with the actual gearing in the tranny it dont do, do do when it comes to actual pulling power.

I'm not even going to address the octane and detonation, other than to say. Yeah it does help w/that. Duh, no SH*T, I never said it did'nt. I will say, running 91 in a regular every day car will NOT ruin the engine. Yes, it will be an incredible waste of money, but it will NOT harm anything. That and I have seen with mine own two eyes readouts (the s = plural as in more than one) that tell me you will get different emissions readings between the 2.
On the flip side, if you have a 11:1 iron headed HP motor and try to run 87 you will have detonation and you will be rebuilding the motor in a short amount of time. Especially if you are aggressive in timing.

I'll even agree with you that TQ at the tire is a combination of Gearing and motor (gearing includes tire size). The point is. I've alreay done what I'm going to do to the tranny. I have the gear ratio that suits my overall usage. There for I have no interest whatsoever in changing gear ratios.

I notice that your example of toluene only seems to be a teaspoon to 20 gallons. Wow, I had no idea that was the only possible mixure. What if someone mixed a cup of toluene to a gallon of regular. Do you still think it would be washed out and have no measureable reading on emissions?

What if Someone ran some AV gas? Would that have any measureale difference? What if someone ran some Gasahol?

What if somone mixed some nitromethane up and put it on the sniffer?

I know the tree huggne flower smok'n, smog cops don't want you running anything other than their approved juice. Precicely beause it could give a "false reading" We all know a car that passed with a false reading is much more of an environmental danger than a car that has a waiver, because it can't pass. Oh wait, could it be, that they generate less revenue on one as opposed to the other?

 

[woodyedmiston]

Every once in a while MAKG goes off the deep end and starts quoting law like a Yankee Lawyer. I don’t know what it is about folks that want to make things illegal when they are not. There is nothing in the Clean Air Act http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/caa211.txt that prevents you from putting tolulene, acetone (another myth) or peanut butter in your gas tank. Click on the link and look it up. The Clean Air Act regulates companies not individuals. It’s related to the manufacture and use on a grand scale of dirty, hazardous or harmful ingredients.

On the other hand, MAKG is right when he says it’s not going to make a bit of difference in fuel economy. Your fuel has X - amount of energy in it. You can only get some lesser percentage of X out of it depending upon the efficiency of your equipment. That’s just physics. That rumor probably started from a recipe that Mark Donahue (Trans Am Champion two years in a row) included in one of his books about making higher octane fuel from aircraft gasoline, which is not cheap and is not pump gas – by adding tolulene. He was trying to help find something for us backwoods racing engine builders to use and not destroy high comp engines. (Donahue was a Ph.D. engineer) He wrote the book in the 70’s when racing fuel was much harder to find. How toluene got mushed around to be a fuel extender is a mystery to me. If you want to know more about fuel additives and what they will do for fuel economy take a look at:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut10.shtm

The last thing the government needs to be doing is messing around with what you put in your gas tank. There is a whole industry out there trying to sell additives. Some of them raise your octane a little, help clean your fuel injectors or something like that. Some of them are just bunk. But -the Clean Air Act regulates them – not you. If it’s on the shelf you can put it in your car. Add bacon grease if you can do it without breaking a State law about excessive smoke. In fact, The Clean Air Act also regulates States and mandates how they can and cannot enforce law. Most states can’t really do what they would like with commercial polluters – the last thing the EPA or State officials need is to be goofing around in your Ranger gas tank checking for fuel additives. Even if it were against the law it would be unenforceable. We don’t make laws that we know from the outset we can’t enforce.

I know there are different State laws in California and some western states. (lived there once - couldn't take the State income tax) But what you burn in your car is not covered by The Clean Air Act.

But that’s not all. There are people burning used cooking grease from McDonalds in their cars. I even saw a story the other day about a fellow who was making a fuel from pig droppings. If you can’t use alternate fuels in your car Willy Nelson is going to be mad – he’s put a lot of money into the bio-fuel he calls Bio-Willy. (He is controlled by the CAA because he is a manufacturer)

I’m one of those people who is entrusted with enforcing the law. As an environmental crimes investigator in Texas, I get pretty peeved when people use scare tactics about something in the law that just isn’t true. MAKG needs to stick to something he knows about and leave the government out of your gas tank.

Finally, MAKG is sort of being a jerk. He knows he is talking down to someone and just keeps doing it. If your goal is to teach or inform you can’t do it by criticizing them.