C4 or C5 Bellhousing

[rednine4]

From what I've read, in order to use a C4 torque converter in a C5 trans, I will have to have a C4 bell... Is this true and how can I tell if my bell is from a C4 or C5? I was told the bell was a 164 tooth bell, but I want to make sure it will work before buying the wrong torque converter/flex plate etc... Is there a casting number or indication?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The C5 has a deeper bellhousing. I have also heard you have to change the valve body when you change the bell/TC.

I think V8 C5's were all 164T bellhousings.

Here is my C5:

My C4, also 164t:

Of course there more be one than one part number for essentially the same thing (I wouldn't doubt it all on the C4)

C=60's
D=70's
E=80's

For example the E2 on my C5 bell means it was DESIGNED in (not produced for) 1982, the rest of it is code too but I don't recall what it means. You could still get a part in say... 1989 that had a E2 prefix if it hadn't been updated. The C7 means my C4 bell was designed in 1967.

Reading codes is kinda cool once you get into it, but I can never remember what the specifics are after the first two digits.

 

[rednine4]

Nice pics! Very helpful.. So I can tell that I have the c5 bell currently (top pic)... to put it behind the 302 I will need the C4 164 tooth bell then (bottom pic)?? or will the old c5 housing mate to a 302?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Nice pics! Very helpful.. So I can tell that I have the c5 bell currently (top pic)... to put it behind the 302 I will need the C4 164 tooth bell then (bottom pic)?? or will the old c5 housing mate to a 302?

The bellhousing is deeper, so the TC would be farther away from the transmission. Dunno for sure if that will be a problem or not. I doubt it would be a good thing though.

 

[Capt Jay]

A C-5 will not bolt to a 302. The C-4 is not only deeper it also has a larger diameter.

 

[Capt Jay]

What is your intension for the truck? The C-5 is designed to back a V-6. It will work behind a V-8 (after the bell housing is changed) but it won't take a ton of abuse. Mine lasted in my off-road truck for just over one season. I then gutted the transmission and replaced the inner working with donor parts and Jegs parts from/for a C-4.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

A C-5 will not bolt to a 302. The C-4 is not only deeper it also has a larger diameter.

Ford put them behind more than just a 2.8 in the early '80's between the C4 being phased out and the AOD becoming popular.

Mine is a factory V8 C5 with the RBV C5 tailhousing.

I wouldn't doubt the V6 C5 would probably have different VB/guts though, so that part of it will depend on what the OP has for a transmission. Somehow I took it that we were dealing with V8 transmissions/bellhousings, which is what all my pictures are of.

 

[rednine4]

My transmission is also a factory C5... the valve body has already been swapped to that of a c4.. the tail shaft is set up to mate to the stock 1354 tcase...

I am putting this behind a 302 HO. My concern is that the C5 bell wont work... I know it has an E2 casting on it like the (top pic). but I will post the exact numbers in a few hours when I get home.

I guess this will determine if I have the V8 housing or the stock 2.8L housing.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

My transmission is also a factory C5... the valve body has already been swapped to that of a c4.. the tail shaft is set up to mate to the stock 1354 tcase...

I am putting this behind a 302 HO. My concern is that the C5 bell wont work... I know it has an E2 casting on it like the (top pic). but I will post the exact numbers in a few hours when I get home.

I guess this will determine if I have the V8 housing or the stock 2.8L housing.

Yeah, as far as what the guts are you would have to tear it apart to know for sure what is inside of it. If the tailhousing came with it it is likely a V6 tranny. If it came with the big bell it is likely a V8 tranny... but only one way to know for sure really.

My concern is when you tighten down the TC nuts you will pull the TC ahead far enough to start disengaging stuff. The splines and flat spots for the TC to engage are not really that long.

 

[rednine4]

Bell house casting reads Pf-E2ap7976-ca

 

[rednine4]

Yeah, as far as what the guts are you would have to tear it apart to know for sure what is inside of it. If the tailhousing came with it it is likely a V6 tranny. If it came with the big bell it is likely a V8 tranny... but only one way to know for sure really.

My concern is when you tighten down the TC nuts you will pull the TC ahead far enough to start disengaging stuff. The splines and flat spots for the TC to engage are not really that long.

That's a good point.... did not think of that..

The first letter is actually a "R" and not a "P" ... so that will leave me with the same bell as you in the top pic..

 

[Sighman]

Here's my understanding from all I've been through with my C4. The C5 is the same as a C4 but with internal modifications to the case and valve body such as the C4 rear thrust washer oiling problem. The thing to make sure of is that what you get matches. By this I mean that the flex plate is the correct one for the torque converter and the bell housing. I have a C4 with the small bell housing, Flex plate with 157 teeth and 10.5 bolt pattern. I went with the small housing to gain as much clearance as possible as I wasn't doing a body lift. If you do a lot of highway driving you might want to look at the AOD - I found these guys very helpfull - http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/c4-transmissions/

 

[rednine4]

The c4/c5 I have is ready to go in minus the bell housing... I just need to know what I must do (torque converter, flex plate etc) to get it behind a 302. If I need another bell house, I need to know which one will work. From my research i have found the bell that I have to be from a ranger or BII V6 I was hoping someone could confirm this just to be safe, and provide the needed info on a new bell that can be interchanged.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The c4/c5 I have is ready to go in minus the bell housing... I just need to know what I must do (torque converter, flex plate etc) to get it behind a 302. If I need another bell house, I need to know which one will work. From my research i have found the bell that I have to be from a ranger or BII V6 I was hoping someone could confirm this just to be safe, and provide the needed info on a new bell that can be interchanged.

You need a different bellhousing, they never put a 302 in a Ranger so you won't find a bellhousing there. By the time the Ranger came along the C4 was dead anyway.

Find a C4 bellhousing, and the torque converter and flexplate to go with it. The flexplate has to match the counterbalance of your engine.

 

[rednine4]

ok thanks. yeah.. im still leaning towards a 164 tooth bell just because finding a flexplate that has the 50oz imbalance for a 157 tooth seems tricky/expensive.