C4 Big Bell or Small Bell

[sparky2eh]

Just wondering if anyone knows of a surefire way to check if an installed C4 is a big or small bell housing? Is there a measurement you can take to tell the difference?
Reason I ask is I just picked up another ranger, this one has a 302/C4 and I want to swap in an 87 5.0 roller engine in place of the dying 302. So I am trying to line up the parts I need so the truck will be in and out in a weekend.
Not much experience with automatics so hence the question do I need to find a 164 tooth/ 50 oz imbalance flexplate or order a 157 tooth/50 oz one. Thanks.

 

[baddad457]

The big bell almost always has a pan mounted dipstick. The small bell never does, the dipstick goes into the case behind the bell.

 

[sparky2eh]

Thanks very much. I knew there was an answer out there

 

[slammer67]

x2
big bell = pan fill

 

[Sighman]

X3 - however on my small bell housing C4, the housing is removable, so it might be possible to make switches.....

 

[slammer67]

you can switch bellhousings, but you cant switch between big/ small bells
the small bell bolts to the front pump bolts, it has no bolt holes to put the big bell on.

so to answer the original question, if there are bolt holes around the outside of where the pump mounts, its a big bell, which is the 164 tooth flexplate

I have a v8 small bell from a mavrick/comet waiting for my v8 swap

that's a nice tranny sighman, what did that set you back?
I just got done with the rebuild of my c5- just got it running last night

 

[snoopjonnyjon]

That's not a sure way to check either. I've switched between them on the same case fill transmission.

The black 164 tooth bellhousing was the original. Bare aluminum JW 157t replaced it.

I've found the easiest way to tell is to look at the position of the top starter hole. If it is almost inline with the two bellhousing bolts above it, its a 157T. The 164t have that hole way further outboard.

This block plate has the starter holes in both locations. The inner ones are 157T, the outer are 164T.

 

[baddad457]

snoop, your big bell looks like a C-5 bell, which while using the same 164 tooth flexplate and larger converter, is different from a pan fill C-4 bell. It's 1" deeper than a 164 tooth C-4 bell due to the C-5 having a lockup converter. I'm no expert on these transmissions, but from what I've gathered about them, you can put a 157 tooth bell on any of them, as long as you have the correct longer pump bolts to do so. Not sure if the reverse is true though, but I think it may be possible. Someone needs to write a book on these things

 

[sparky2eh]

Again thanks a million guys.
I have ordered the 157 tooth flexplate, will be here tomorrow morning...... all for the princely sum of $57 Cdn

 

[snoopjonnyjon]

snoop, your big bell looks like a C-5 bell, which while using the same 164 tooth flexplate and larger converter, is different from a pan fill C-4 bell. It's 1" deeper than a 164 tooth C-4 bell due to the C-5 having a lockup converter. I'm no expert on these transmissions, but from what I've gathered about them, you can put a 157 tooth bell on any of them, as long as you have the correct longer pump bolts to do so. Not sure if the reverse is true though, but I think it may be possible. Someone needs to write a book on these things

I wish I knew what the application was from. I was given the C4 complete except no converter. All the identifiers I could tell pointed that it was a 157t. I rebuilt the transmission, and bought a new flexplate, and JW converter. Everything seemed to bolt up fine until 5 years later I actually try to start the truck, and the starter comes nowhere close to the ring gear. After more research I replaced the bellhousing, and its all good now. I drove the truck for the first time last weekend.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I wish I knew what the application was from. I was given the C4 complete except no converter. All the identifiers I could tell pointed that it was a 157t. I rebuilt the transmission, and bought a new flexplate, and JW converter. Everything seemed to bolt up fine until 5 years later I actually try to start the truck, and the starter comes nowhere close to the ring gear. After more research I replaced the bellhousing, and its all good now. I drove the truck for the first time last weekend.

If it it was in fact a C5 bellhousing it would have been 82 until whenever the AOD took over in the mid 80's. Could be any model though though...

Casting # off of mine:

The whole thing:

 

[snoopjonnyjon]

Here's mine. No close up of the bellhousing casting #.

 

[snoopjonnyjon]

Actually, nevermind. I remember now what happened. I took the transmission in for building, and the original bellhousing was cracked. The transmission shop said they had a good replacement, and that is how I ended up with the big bell that didn't work. It's amazing how I can forget this stuff after 5 years. So many other parts have given me grief since!

 

[d2_willys]

What about the Mustang II bell housing for SBC Ford? I heard that it is even smaller. What's the deal with that one? I heard it is the best fitting in Ranger/B2's.

 

[Mac]

What about the Mustang II bell housing for SBC Ford? I heard that it is even smaller. What's the deal with that one? I heard it is the best fitting in Ranger/B2's.

I think those are 147t but real hard to find, guys with the MII's/Pinto's always looking for them. Don't think the 157T fits too bad.
Dave