Bad solenoid, starter, connection, ignition switch, or something else

[James Morse]

well it says crank the engine and that's the whole problem I can't
all I can potentially do it test if the voltage is the same as at the battery while it's sitting there

at this point I'm about ready to just replace starter AND wiring harness and be done with it. IF I can find wiring harness, thought I saw it the other day now can't find it. isn't 23 years enough to ask of one? You know all the coverings are brittle as sh*t and if I'm doing the job and have it up I might as well just get known good stuff in there, right? It looks like there are not a lot of connections for the harness, it goes to fuse box in bay, and has a connector running to, probably ignition switch, and it goes to the starter. I think that's it.

 

[RonD]

Tap the starter motor with a hammer, that will usually get the brushes inside to connect temporarily
If that works and starter now spins then replace it

Yes, you could put volt meter on the lower large stud on the relay/solenoid(the one that goes to starter motor)
And then activate(jump) starter relay in fuse box to see if the relay/solenoid is closing and passing the 12v to that stud

 

[James Morse]

Yeah that was the old trick we used to do, but we used a big screwdriver and swung it by the blade end so to not take a chance breaking something.
OK I'll try that. It's not hard to get it up on stands, then it will be so much easier to do these things. I strongly suspect starter/solenoid ass'y. At this point I've messed with it so much I'm just about committed to putting in a new starter just so I know I have it good. Not that I'm rich, but as you get older time starts being more valuable. On stands I can easily do the test you just gave me before I do anything else, and I suppose if the solenoid is bad, I could replace just that, but for the diff in price (about $70-80) it seems like it's just worth it to know I have a new starter with its new solenoid in there.
Thinking back on all the intermittent and inconsistent failures, it seems likely there is dead spot in the starter motor, that could easily cause it to fail only at times, and to start when jumped and gets more current, then finally just dies.
Am now clearing woodworking tools aside from my truck bay and will get truck into shop imminently, then will get it up on stands, and with any luck will get this solved by end of tomorrow (he says confidently). Thanks much.

 

[James Morse]

Finally... now to get the truck in there and I'll be golden, to work on it. Funny how the camera caught those two lights that are diff than the rest. I have 18 total, can actually see, it's basically bright as day in there. Enough for today. I think I can push it myself by inching it up and moving the blocks as I do it. Might ask for help. Winch & attach point in shop would be nice. Shop has its own elec feed that's important.

 

[James Morse]

Had another thought. Once I get starter out, I could take to rebuild shop, they will test it and if bad they will rebuild. Not a lot cheaper than new one, but it probably would be better than the China stuff Advance sells. Even though they're warranted, it's still a pain to change out. If mine went 185k miles, a rebuilt of it probably would last 'forever' in practical terms. Meaning, I'd probably be dead before it would.
Didn't do anything yesterday because I got new phone and that took most of the day to change service over, take off/disable crappy apps, set up, etc. I'm convinced the whole thing is a scam to get us busy messing with electronics so much we don't pay attention to anything else. I see it as a necessary evil. Funny we could survive in the old days stopping at rest stops and using a pay phone and we still got there - and with paper maps.

 

[RonD]

Knew a guy that started a business many many years ago in SoCal, he would rebuild starters and alternator/generators for shops
Back in the day when most gas stations had 2 or 3 service bays, not grocery stores, lol, so a long time ago

He would drive over pick up the part, clean and rebuild, then return it later that day or next day
Started off with just a Ford Courier and rebuilt stuff in his garage

Ended up with big shop and quite a few employees, and already rebuilt parts so same day pickup/exchange for all the mechanics shops
Not sure whatever happened to his business as I moved away

 

[James Morse]

That sounds awesome. The place I used to go to closed, but I found another place, I had to have a Grizzly motor for drill press done, it was just the start capacitor, rest was ok. $80, but, Grizzly wanted $230 for a new one, so, much better deal. Normally when they do rebuild they check everything. If it's good it would be like 20 to check it out, and if that were true, then I'd immediately chase the cables. I'm thinking today that would be the way to go, then I'm not jumping live wires around and maybe doing something I shouldn't about that. Truck has already been out of commission 4 days, another few days won't matter that much, I have another vehicle I can use meanwhile; I miss the truck, but, better to get this done right. Meanwhile that is delaying the brake work but first things first. Then the cruise buttons. I suppose it never really ends does it. And all this is delaying my actual work of course. Going to finally try pushing the truck into the shop now.

Pickup/deliver would be nice, although it's only probably 5 miles away to the shop here. A guy I know who traveled in S. America showed me a pic where there is a whole district of nothing but motor rebuild shops. Here the current philosophy is just trash it and get new. It's the same with all goods now, in the old days if you bought a kitchen table you expected it to last basically your life, now if it goes a few years you're lucky, unless you pay totally exorbitant prices. What used to be craftsmanship is now considered art. Guess that's enough rant for the moment. I guess if there's a point, it's that I'd rather work on a '99 than a new truck, of course new truck probably wouldn't have problems, so there's that, but when they do, man, everything is so complicated and packed in, it doesn't encourage you to do your own work.

In fact, in my recollection NAPA used to do rebuilds (60's / 70's), I'm quite sure of that. Doubt they do now though.

 

[RonD]

Most starters or alternators do have a core charge, so they are rebuilt at some point or used for parts

 

[James Morse]

Yes... and today I'm thinking why would I give Advance my Ford starter (assume it's original until I know different) to rebuild when I can have it rebuilt (probably). If it is original, it must have been used thousands of times, probably many thousands. They must have a life expectancy. The guys that work on them know to check/replace bushings/bearings, brushes, armature (although sometimes that might not be worth it). What I'm saying there is as to the windings, good shops, I think, could re-wind the wire, they had machines that did it. That's really getting old school. Though I think I've had instances where they told me 'windings are shot, not worth it, get new'.
I had one 110V motor actually catch on fire and I got to use my shop fire extinguisher (they really work). I think what happened is it got a lot of sawdust in it and then it got hot enough to ignite that, and of course there's oil in there for the bearings... when I told the rebuild guy he was like 'don't bring me a motor that's been on fire... throw it out'.

Yep core charges always for the stuff, batteries, all that. So right now I'm out the core charge of course but either way it goes either I take back the new one and get all back or I turn my old on in and get the $22 back.
I think I told you I did end up taking back the 'new' battery, it wouldn't register over 12.2V even after trickle charging. I told them that. My old battery still reads 12.65-12.7 and those batteries are really expensive.
I recall on the Saab (gone now) I got a deal on an Interstate gel battery.
By the way, even though my old battery didn't have exposed plates, the fluid was pretty close to them so I topped all cells with distilled water. I figure that can't hurt. In the old days that was just a regular part of maintenance.

Stuck at the moment, because I simply cannot move the truck uphill by myself so I will have to get help. It's not a steep incline, but it's enough. I was trying to push it a couple inches then using a stick, push the blocks forward... good idea, but, I just can't do it. Time to ask for help.

 

[fastpakr]

If you're not in a rush, I could probably give you a hand pushing it in on Monday evening after 7? Things are booked solid for the next few days.

 

[James Morse]

Oh man, that would be really kind and generous of you. Sure that would be great, I really appreciate it. I'll plan on it, let me know if anything changes. Will DM you address. Thanks.

 

[RonD]

1999 Ranger won't have original starter
Starters can last over 15 years, but really depends on history, 8 to 10 years is average for 1970-1990s
Sitting for long periods, unused, is bad
Cranking for long periods is also bad

The newer starters on vehicles with Auto stop/start have a different and better design so will probably last a bit longer but will also cost twice the price of the older type to replace

 

[James Morse]

fastpakr just came over and pushed truck into shop, not only that, swapped in new starter very quickly. It was awesome.
His truck is the same year and same color as mine, but he has 4wd and V8. Mine is Mazda and his is Ranger but pretty much the same otherwise which was cool.
So this issue is closed, truck cranks right over, starts great. Many thanks to fastpakr.

 

[Curious Hound]

fastpakr just came over and pushed truck into shop, not only that, swapped in new starter very quickly. It was awesome.
His truck is the same year and same color as mine, but he has 4wd and V8. Mine is Mazda and his is Ranger but pretty much the same otherwise which was cool.
So this issue is closed, truck cranks right over, starts great. Many thanks to fastpakr.

He's one of the good-uns.

Glad you're fixed up.