anyone an expert in installing geothermal cooling?

[blue83ranger]

We are going to install geothermal cooling/heating in one of our sheds and I did some research on it and i just wanted to check and see if anyone can confirm or deny the info i found? First the shed is 24 x 30, it's has a concrete floor, it's all metal except it sits on wood which bolts on the floor and it's not insulated yet. We have a backhoe so that should save us a lot of money there. The info i found said there are 2 different pipes you can use, both plastic, i forget the technical names but i'll be able to find it again. But i didn't find what size pipe to use. another site said 3/4 inch and another one said 3 inch, but i don't know what size building they where using it on. It also said you need at least 500 feet of pipe. First 6 foot deep then loop it back 3 feet deep. We will most likely go the hick route and use a radiator for a super duty and maybe use a box fan or something ghetto like that and some type of drain for the condensation. (haven't figured that out yet) My dad found some small pump to move the water that's supposed to use very little power. And it said you're supposed to use a special antifreeze but my dad figured we could just use water because the pipe is deep enough to never freeze and what little would be above ground will most likely be moving. (I would prefer to use the antifreeze) also i would rather do things overkill then to size everything just right for a 24 x 30 building. any thoughts? and i know my description on how to do it isn't impressive by any means but it should work for me.

 

[martin]

The liquid might be moving but, did you ever see Niagara falls during the winter?

 

[hvacowboy]

Need some more information. Do you already have any of the equipment, IE the air handler/compressor section? What were you planning on using the radiator for?

 

[LearjetMinako]

Sounds like he is going to use the raditor as the cooling condenser. I do suggest to use anti-freeze when needed. Even if it moving, it will still ice on the inside.

The way I've seen it done at some homes. They take severly large pipes and spread them apart around the house, water blasting them deep in the ground. Then they a smaller pipe and loop it inside the large pipe. Next they fill the large pipe with concert, but they also have the small pipe tied down heavily. If they didn't, the small pipe would shoot straight out of the big pipe. The small pipe loops completely around, so you end up with two 2x open ends for the coolant to cycle through.

 

[skippy]

We are going to install geothermal cooling/heating in one of our sheds and I did some research on it and i just wanted to check and see if anyone can confirm or deny the info i found? First the shed is 24 x 30, it's has a concrete floor, it's all metal except it sits on wood which bolts on the floor and it's not insulated yet. We have a backhoe so that should save us a lot of money there. The info i found said there are 2 different pipes you can use, both plastic, i forget the technical names but i'll be able to find it again. But i didn't find what size pipe to use. another site said 3/4 inch and another one said 3 inch, but i don't know what size building they where using it on. It also said you need at least 500 feet of pipe. First 6 foot deep then loop it back 3 feet deep. We will most likely go the hick route and use a radiator for a super duty and maybe use a box fan or something ghetto like that and some type of drain for the condensation. (haven't figured that out yet) My dad found some small pump to move the water that's supposed to use very little power. And it said you're supposed to use a special antifreeze but my dad figured we could just use water because the pipe is deep enough to never freeze and what little would be above ground will most likely be moving. (I would prefer to use the antifreeze) also i would rather do things overkill then to size everything just right for a 24 x 30 building. any thoughts? and i know my description on how to do it isn't impressive by any means but it should work for me.

overkill doesn't work in this field,cooling systems are sized using acca manual j for homes,manual m for commercial buildings.oversized cooling systems don't run enough to remove the humidity,resulting in wet/cold walls,can you say(MOLD).

get in touch with a mechanical engineer or mechanical contractor,who will run the calculations and provide a cost estimate,your health might depend on it.

 

[hvacowboy]

If your not going to use a in-ground well-field for heat transfer, and use an air cooled radiator instead, then its not geo-thermal, its just watersource. You might as well use traditonal air to air heat pump.

 

[blue83ranger]

besides the backhoe to dig the trench for the pipe we have no supplies for this at all. and we would run the pipe to and from the radiator, and it would be the evaporator. and now that it was mentioned about over kill i do remember hearing that a/c's that are to big will cool the building to fast and not run long enough causing it not to get the moister out of the air. so I now know we need to size it right for our shed and to use the right kind of antifreeze in the pipe. any other corrections?

 

[97RangerXLT]

My best friend put a geothermal unit for his house about 4 years ago. first of all, the lines are about an inch inner diameter. you want to dig at least 7 feet down or more. He had a backhoe and did this too, he went down 14 feet and burried teh first layer, then at 7 feet did the second layer. he had a major problem with the trenches caving in as it was a wet fall when he did it. ended up redoing two of his 4 lines in the spring. he had 4 lines running over 100 feet each and meeting up at a manifold which was under ground right next to the house. for coolant, he used a regular 50/50 antifreeze water mixture. very cheap to run, but the overall installation cost him about 10,000 bucks, and him and his dad did all the work.

Skippy is spot on with the sizing your cooling to the building. you may not need a mechanical engineer, but at least consult a good commercial HVAC company. they can give you an idea of how big of a system you will need.

AJ

 

[blue83ranger]

I read there are two different geothermal set ups. One is to dig straight down in the ground and use a well. Or to use pipe in the ground horizontally and fill it full of water/antifreeze under ground and the ground cools the water.

 

[hvacowboy]

Are you planning on using a water to water heat pump? It sounds like a lot of expense for cooling a shop. 2 to 3 times the cost of a traditional air cooled split system.

 

[blue83ranger]

I must be very uninformed. What i read and what me and my dad discussed was just buy the pipe, put it in the ground, hook the pipe to a car radiator and add just a small pump to move the antifreeze, like an electric car water pump or something. and run a fan over the radiator fins. and done. apparently i'm way over my head here. and $10,000 is not even in the ball park on what i want to spend. Is there any way what i described would work?

 

[hvacowboy]

Theres a lot of good info at this site www.fhp-mfg.com
Most installations I've seen either used several deep wells connected in parallel, or coils of spaced pipe below frost line.

 

[blue83ranger]

we were planning on doing the latter. I'll check that site out. thanks

 

[hvacowboy]

As far as just cycling water through pipe underground to disipate heat, I don't believe you will notice any cooling effect. You need the benefit of compression refrigeration to significantly transfer heat enough to cool the shop. If you want something cheaper/simpler try a evaporative cooler (swamp cooler). I've even seen a wool blanket soaked with water, and the bottom in a trough of water, blanket over the inlet of a box fan.

 

[97RangerXLT]

If you are thinking of just slapping something together, you will get much better results using a regular heat pump that is cooled/heated by air. What you are proposing may not cost much to set up, but it will be extremely inefficient and will cost you a bunch to run. a cheap heat pump will not cost that much more than you are going to spend in coolant lines and other items to do this, and will be much easier to hook up.

as for wells vs trenches, they both work the same way. trenches are easier to do especially if you have a backhoe and enough land to run them (a little over an acre will do nicely.) If you have a small yard or do not want to dig trenches all over it, wells will work, but they will cost you because you cant dig them with a backhoe, you will have to hire or rent a machine to drill them for you.

AJ