Another slave cylinder thread...

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Thanks! So essentially, you snaked the pressure line between the master and slave out from the engine bay or wheel well area?
I am going to assume this is the process:

?

Honestly, i think the smartest thing for me to do is give it a good bleed, following this procedure to a T, rather than pulling the tranny.

Absolutely bleed first.

 

[Josh B]

Yes, definitely follow Always advice there, they may have corrected the problems with the newer systems by the time yours was made. They had actually found the flaws in mine when I first did it in 2006, a parts rep at Mid-Tenn Ford in Nashville kept running into numbers that he didn't understand, but later realized were for a new type system for my 93, but I had already gone too far into replacing my system using the original, and they were at no point interchangeable, not sure if that newer system he stumbled across then still exists(for mine, tho maybe on later models).
i hope you find a simple bleed procedure will accomplish the task, but if it doesn't, and you can get no pedal, there is still air in it, and sadly enough, yes, you will have to wriggle it out of there, bleed it stretched from the reservoir at the highest point, and farthest connector(to the slave) at the lowest. Wobble it all around until all the bubbles go up, and feed it back through the gauntlet as an entire unit. Then attach it to the slave and gravity bleed the slave(making sure not to allow the reservoir to go dry).
Here is a photo of the power torque slave cylinder i was referring to earlier, that clip makes it so much easier to secure.

 

[cmattina]

Anyone know for certain if i need to remove the exhaust to get the tranny out? In the older 4.0 the exhaust went under the front of the tranny, in the 2008 it seems to go under, but just at the rear by the cross member. I would rather not have to find out the hard way. if i need to take of the exhaust it should be the first thing i do...

 

[det107]

Bleed the slave cylinder to pinpoint the problem & for safety's sake-

 

[cmattina]

Bleed the slave cylinder to pinpoint the problem & for safety's sake-

I was planning on bleeding the whole system tonight... If i do a "gravity bleed", will this bleed the slave? From my knowledge, it doesn't bleed the high pressure line between the master and slave nor does it bleed the master itself.

 

[cmattina]

Something tells me this should look more dry....

I don't think i'll bleed it until i get a new one. Of course where i live in Canada that takes a week. fingers crossed...

 

[Josh B]

I haven't seen any leaks you had that were really noteable. After it's pushed your boat down the street, check back.
Guess what i recommend to anyone who purchases a used vehicle(we all drive used cars), stop at the parts store on your way home, and buy yourself a repair manual.
What your post here started with, and how it still sounds to me is a clutch issue similar to what i came onto while sitting at Emissions in 12/06.
I see no way you can fix that by looking.
Actually I've been around this 2 or 3 times and have kinda gotten lost as to the point, can you please redefine it as to where you are now
I'll still be happy to offer any suggestions I can come up with

 

[cmattina]

I haven't seen any leaks you had that were really noteable. After it's pushed your boat down the street, check back.
Guess what i recommend to anyone who purchases a used vehicle(we all drive used cars), stop at the parts store on your way home, and buy yourself a repair manual.
What your post here started with, and how it still sounds to me is a clutch issue similar to what i came onto while sitting at Emissions in 12/06.
I see no way you can fix that by looking.
Actually I've been around this 2 or 3 times and have kinda gotten lost as to the point, can you please redefine it as to where you are now
I'll still be happy to offer any suggestions I can come up with

hey josh...

Well, where i think i am at is I have either/both air in my line or a bad master.

There definitely seems to be fluid on my master which at minimum is a sign air got in the line.

So, i ordered a new master, it will be here in a week, I will put it in, bleed the line properly and see how i do.

 

[Josh B]

I'm afraid more than once I've looked to your member info and saw "automatic" there, sorry if I've caused any of that confusion myself

 

[cmattina]

Update:

Put in a new master cylinder today. Bled it as per Perfection Clutch procedure.

The old one was definitely leaking as a little fluid came out of it even when i took it out of the firewall.

The hard part was gravity bleeding the system after it was all put back together. Hardly any thing was coming out. Little specks of white stuff came out and it took a lot of hassle to get through 1.5ish reservoirs full.

The result was a... minor improvement to my main issue.

I am certain the clutch is working, it seems to grab fine. i can start in second on a hill. I can also roll down a hill with the pedal pressed in reverse, first, whatever.

I still have trouble getting into gear at a stop while idling though...

 

[Josh B]

It's the bleeding procedure sir, the only way to bleed those is as a unit, stretched out perfectly vertical, and about the only way to do that is with the entire unit out of the truck.
Did your master cylinder come in two pieces, one the cylinder, and the other the rod, which pushes into place and locks into the cylinder (after the cylinder has been installed into the firewall)?

 

[cmattina]

It's the bleeding procedure sir, the only way to bleed those is as a unit, stretched out perfectly vertical, and about the only way to do that is with the entire unit out of the truck.
Did your master cylinder come in two pieces, one the cylinder, and the other the rod, which pushes into place and locks into the cylinder (after the cylinder has been installed into the firewall)?

Yeah I bled it as per the procedure. It seemed to be bled when I put it on. Was real hard with almost no travel in the screwdriver/rod.

I have not taken an actual measurement of travel at the slave, yet. Then again, it is engaging and disengaging fine.. i.e. my transmission seems to be 100% disengaged when i put the clutch in.

So, if i am correct above, that the clutch hydraulics are working correctly, what could the issue be?
- Throwout bearing?
- pilot bearing?

 

[BlackBII]

So you push in the clutch while in gear, and the truck will roll down a slope? That means the clutch is disengaging. It may not be disengaging 100%; the weight of the truck may be enough to overcome any leftover drag. I would try jacking up the rear end and spinning the tires by hand with it in gear and with the clutch pushed in. The wheels should be easy to rotate by hand. If not, the clutch may be dragging.

Pilot bearing is still my guess, because it happens when the engine is running -- the input shaft is still spinning even with the clutch pushed in.

I did encounter one clutch that was dragging because the friction disc was coated with grease and oil, but the inside of your bellhousing looks clean.

 

[Josh B]

Wow CM, I'm not really good at troubleshooting transmissions, or master/slave cylinders either, but I've rebuilt 2 in the last 12 years, each of which were considerable trouble and had to do at least twice before getting it right, you just caught me at a time when the most recent was still so fresh in my mind.
I'm almost two months into getting a replacement transmission in it, hoping to get that underway today with my rebuilt.
Problem is this is my daily driver with no safety net, so by the time I need to go somewhere it's gotta be ready, or I won't easily get there.

My first time down a month ago i put a new clutch kit and slave cylinder kit to get those problems out of the way, then found it also has a bad front bearing so I ordered a rebuilt, even when i get that in I might find it also has engine troubles that'll need to be dealt with. I've about got a windshield scheduled for Tuesday by the same family shop that put one in my 73 Econoline around 1982. Wish I still had that one too, but a scrapper got to it while I was living in TN.

Anyhow back to your question, of the 3 or 4 times I've done one, it never seemed to fully disengage until it got firmly pressed into the floorboard, but always did the job, right up until it went out again.

You can idle it in neutral, clutch out, do you hear the noise? then go with Clutch pedal fully depressed(clutch fully disengaged) (at this point the transmission should be fully stopped and the only part now under load is your pilot bearing, the pilot bearings only duty is at this point) does it go quiet? Whichever side of this test makes the noise is most likely where the trouble is

 

[cmattina]

Anyhow back to your question, of the 3 or 4 times I've done one, it never seemed to fully disengage until it got firmly pressed into the floorboard, but always did the job, right up until it went out again.

You can idle it in neutral, clutch out, do you hear the noise? then go with Clutch pedal fully depressed(clutch fully disengaged) (at this point the transmission should be fully stopped and the only part now under load is your pilot bearing, the pilot bearings only duty is at this point) does it go quiet? Whichever side of this test makes the noise is most likely where the trouble is

Would the throwout not be on duty while the clutch is engaged? I thought the throwout was at the end of slave and therefore get pushed up against the fingers when the pedal is depressed?

Either way will have a listen