Another Shift Rail Plug Thread

[harriw]

Hey guys (and gals),

Just noticed shift rail plugs are leaking, making a mess. I've read through all I can find on the subject, but have a few quick q's:

1. What have people used to clean up the area before RTVing in new plugs? Brake cleaner? Carb cleaner? Anything I should avoid, in case some of it drips into the transmission? Just spray it down, and use a rag to clean out the three holes?

2. Any tips on where to find replacement rubber plugs? I hear the dealers want $6 each or so... Do the chain stores have them? What size should they be?

3. The fun part - any great tips on how to get at them? I had a really tough time finding them from underneath, so I'm thinking from the top (Remove shifter) is my best bet. I just popped it off tonight and found the plugs (yeah, they're loose, moving around easily in their old RTV - really hope that's the source of the leak), but there's not much finger room with that bolted-on plate there. I can get them out no problem, but I'm not sure I can maneuver the new ones back in, particularly with them covered in RTV. Can I cut out a section of the plate with a dremel to make more room? I know the plate unbolts, but I'd need to tear up the carpet to do that, right?

How fast does the fluid drain from those holes? I've only had the truck a month - should I be worried about fluid level? I was going to do a drain and re-fill anyway, but was hoping to wait until next month (this month's "fix the truck" budget is pretty much spent already - new thermostat, coolant flush and re-fill, fuel filter, air filter, MAF cleaner, rear diff. fluid change, etc., hoping to do it all this weekend).

Thanks a lot!

-Bill

 

[rboyer]

You should be able to get a pair of needle nose pliers in there from underneath to pull the plugs out but if you don't know what you're looking for it makes it harder to find them. I would suggest putting a jack under the transmission and removing the crossmember and then lowering it a little bit to give you more room. Spraying a little bit of brake cleaner in there isn't going to hurt anything and it would help to wipe it with a rag first incase there are any chunks of grease up in there. If you have a tube of RTV laying around then the cheapest method would be to just coat the old ones with RTV and then throw them back in. You could also use steel plugs and if you have searched around i'm sure you found the method for installing them and I believe that the cost of them is like 35 cents a piece and they are less prone to leakage than the rubber ones. And to answer your last question, there is no way to tell how much fluid leaked from your transmission so running it with an unknown amount of fluid is completely your choice.

 

[locovaca]

If you find the rubber plugs at a store, they won't be listed a Mazda Transmission Plugs. I'm pretty sure they're a dealer-only item.

On the bright side, for $.80 a plug + thread sealer + RTV, you could do freeze plugs that'll last the life of your tranny. Like rboyer said, lower the tranny a bit, get the plug on the end of a socket with an extension, and pound it in from underneath.

I did mine with my tranny out, and my plugs were leaking but still sealed somewhat so I had powerwashed the tranny to clean it off. Brake cleaner is a good idea, just try not to get any inside.

The fluid doesn't drain "fast" but unless you just filled it up a month ago, I'd just change it. Since Ford says the fluid isn't a maintenance item I'd be willing to guess the previous owner didn't change it. Mine was blacker than the night at 140k, for $10 it's well worth the piece of mind.

 

[harriw]

Thanks guys,

I did read about lowering the tranny, but wouldn't you have to undo the engine mounts and transfercase and/or drive shafts? Or is there really that much play in the drivetrain that you can leave it all connected and still lower the tranny enough to make a difference? Any risk in lowering it too far?

Also - how "permanent" are the freeze plugs? If I had the tranny rebuilt in a year or two, does that present any problems for the re-builder, or are they simple to pop back out?

Thanks again guys.

-Bill H

 

[harriw]

D'oh! One more I forgot: If I go with rubber plugs, do you need high-temp RTV there? I've got a tube of regular, just not high temp.

I also have a tube of permatex minute-gasket, or something like that that's pretty high temp... think that would work?

Thanks!

-Bill

 

[rboyer]

Just removing the crossmember should allow you to get enough room to get in there. The steel plugs are considered permanent because they don't shrink like the rubber plugs which means that they won't leak while they're in there but removing them is not a problem in the future. Alot if not all transmission builders will use steel plugs on these things when remanufacturing one. As for the type of RTV on the rubber plugs, you don't need anything high temp like the red stuff. You can use black, blue, ultra black, etc.

 

[harriw]

Ok, I called the dealer and ordered the Ford plugs (came in a package of 4 for some reason...) But just for grins, I googled the part number. It looks like they're actually selling freeze plugs for this application now, not the rubber plugs (but I guess I'll find out when I pick them up in the morning).

So... from my research, I gather that freeze plugs are designed to go into engine core holes that have lips built in such that the plug slides right in and stops at the lip, at which point you flatten the dome to expand and seal the plug in place, right?

I don't think the shift rail holes have the lips though, do they? So they're just supposed to be a press-fit of sorts? Everyone recommends using a socket to pound them in - do you use the "nut side" of the socket to only push around the edge of the plug, or do you flip the socket around so that you're applying force to the entire face of the plug (except for the ratchet hole, of course)?

Sorry for all the long, stupid questions. Just a Newbie trying to get it right the first time before my tranny seizes

Thanks a lot!

 

[locovaca]

So the plugs are like a cup. You place the flat end of the cup against the shift rail hole, with the saucer side sticking out. On the saucer side you put in the largest socket you can fit in there, then drive it in. Essentially it's a seal driver. I drove mine in until the outside of the cup was flush with the side of the tranny then further sealed it up with RTV.

 

[pacodiablo]

On my 2001 Ranger I replaced the plugs as preventive maintenance when the truck was about six years old. I just got new rubber ones from the dealer. I paid around $6-8 for all three of them. I just pried the old ones out with a screw driver, then pushed the new ones in, simple as that. The new ones fit snugly, and since the old ones didn't have any RTV on them, I didn't put any on the new ones.

Freeze plugs are probably a good idea if you need to drop the transmission anyway, but personally I think $6 for rubber ones every few years and 10 minutes of work isn't so bad.

 

[harriw]

That was more or less the conclusion I came to as well. But after googling the part number the Ford guy mentioned, I'm thinking he might have ordered freeze plugs for me rather than the rubber plugs. Guess I'll have to sort it all out in the morning, one way or the other.

Yours is a 2001? Anyone know what the new trucks use? Do they still use rubber plugs, or have they switched over to freeze plugs from the factor? I'm just wondering if I can order the plugs from a newer year, and pop them into my '94 tranny?

Thanks guys!

-Bill

 

[pacodiablo]

They may have ordered freeze plugs, but they may not be the right ones. That's what happened to me.

I replaced the ones on my truck back in 2006 or so. I went to the Ford dealer who looked the parts up on their computer. They said they didn't have them in stock, but would order them. A couple days later they called me to come pick them up. I went in and the parts guy handed me a bag with four small brass freeze plugs in it. I told him they were the wrong ones...I needed three rubber ones. Another parts guy there knew what I needed without even looking on the computer, and he found the correct rubber plugs, which they already had in stock. Unfortunately, I don't have the packaging or receipt for the rubber plugs they gave me anymore. I sold that truck in 2007.

I'm not sure what the deal was there. The brass freeze plugs they ordered did not look large enough to fit the shift rail holes, and they were sealed in a pack of four.

I'm not sure what Ford is putting in new Rangers. The M5OD in my 2001 is the newest one I have ever looked at up close.

 

[harriw]

Go figure - I think that's EXACTLY what I'm going to go through tomorrow morning (he said they come in a package of 4...). Hopefully a guy at my dealer will know what I really want too, and will have them in stock.

Guess we'll see how it plays out. Thanks for the tip!

-Bill

 

[Rufus]

What size freeze plugs would be the choice for the shift rail? Do they come in different sizes?

 

[locovaca]

You need [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Dorman cup plug P/N 555-108 or Dana P/N 219-3052. Yes, they come in all sorts of sizes.
[/FONT]

 

[Rufus]

I'm working on this very same project this weekend so first thing this morning, I called NAPA and asked for those Dorman and or Dana freeze plugs and they told me they don't cross with anything and wanted to know the sizes of the holes I was plugging. Since I didn't have anything to get in there and measure without taking out the transmition, I just went for the pull'em out slobber on RTV (red) and shove them back in option. I would still like to have the freeze plugs on hand since from everthing I have read says that this won't be the only time I will have to point my attention that direction and would like fix it forever the next time. Just so everyone knows I did the work from the bottom since the clips that hold the shift plate to the floor boards broke and the nut just spins and I didn't have any helpers.