Alignment Issue

[hutch08]

So I have a wheel alignment problem.. My truck has a 6" BDS lift with eagle alloy wheels and 33x13.5 ltb's, after i installed the lift and tires i had the truck aligned and it was good, handled fine and tires wore evenly. I recently added a one inch spacer under my coil springs and added a sj extreme drop pitman arm. obviously after that i had camber and toe issues so i got another wheel alignment done, after putting a few miles on it and i'm totally pissed, my front tires are wearing extremly on the inside, and my truck handles like garbage, seems like it pulls all over the road... According to the shop my truck is in "spec" and should be fine, somehow i don't belive them, looking at my tires in the parking looks like / \, obviously my camber is off... so i have another appt on monday with a different place to see what they can do, their issue is that they dont wanna use manufactures alignment specs on my truck becuase, "they wont work"... i called BDS to give me there specs for my truck and they're not that much different than the stock specs, what do you recommend???

heres the spec sheet the garage gave me after my alignment.. my bad for the poor quality...

and the specs that BDS gave me are...

Caster 2.5* - 6.3*
Camber 0.25* +/- 1*
Toe 0.03" +/- 0.13"

What should I tell the shop to do on Monday??? Oh, and all wheel bearings are tight and the front end is solid...

 

[kunar]

i had the same problem...well sorta. an alignment shop that knows how to align a ttb is hard to find. read through this thread and maybe shoot a pm to 4x4junkie, he was a great help when i needed it.

good luck

 

[4x4junkie]

Your caster #s are way too low, that's why it's pulling & wandering. Ideally you should have at least 3-5° on there. It also sounds like your toe might be off too (toe-out if the tires are wearing on the inside)

It's a shame, but Kunar's right, alignment shops that know anything about Ford Twin-Beam suspensions tend to be few & far between, it seems the training for the techs is lacking on them (why... I don't know, they're only on vehicles that spent decades in the #1 sales spot nationwide ), so they're left just guessing at it (meanwhile they only make the vehicle owners more frustrated that their wallet is only getting lighter).
Factory specs don't change when it's lifted (that's horseshit if they say otherwise) although I do like to add a little bit more toe-in if there's any mismatch between the lift height and the pitman arm's drop amount (linkage not being level).

Do you have the 2-piece adjustable bushings on it? If so, that can help a lot in getting it dialed in, especially if you end up having to resort to doing it yourself.

 

[Gabe8810]

I had that problem bith mine but it does not make sense with you adding the spacer that should make it more pos. not neg.. I say check ball joints just in case and when they align the truck again have them make it more pos. cause the truck will naturally pus the neg. don't have them do it with specs do it by eye to make sure its good

 

[hutch08]

Thanks for the replys, your imput is greatly appreciated... my truck did have positive camber when i added the spacer, but somehow when it rolled out of the shop it had negative camber.. if i recall the tech said something about having to put them in max position to acheive the "correct" position...so it should be alignable with the bushings in there... i'm excited to see the reading that the shop gets and how accurate my previous alignment was, theres no way its right...

Junkie i have always argued with shops about the fact that when a vehicle is lifted the specs shouldnt change... but it seems like no one ever listens to me.. whats your reasoning behind it? next time id like to throw a little more technical response back at them with there horseshit claim...

 

[almostclueless]

Um, EVERY suspension is a compromise....just like every square inch of every vehicle.


If the ride height changes, the alignment is going to be off. Count on it just like death and taxes.

 

[hutch08]

Um, EVERY suspension is a compromise....just like every square inch of every vehicle.


If the ride height changes, the alignment is going to be off. Count on it just like death and taxes.

I didnt mean that after lifting a vehicle the alignment should remain true, obviously it will change, just that theres no reason why they cant re-align it to spec (or close to) after,...

 

[almostclueless]

I didnt mean that after lifting a vehicle the alignment should remain true, obviously it will change, just that theres no reason why they cant re-align it to spec (or close to) after,...

They should be able to realign it....until it reaches a certain point. The manufacturers provide a limited amount of adjustability.

 

[4x4junkie]

As long as the suspension is within 1-2" of it's ideal "ride height" (info on this here), it should be within range of aligning it. It'll then just depend on the competence of the technician doing the alignment whether he gets it right or not.

As for the alignment specifications themselves... there's little reason they should change when all you've done is change the axle's location relative to the frame.
Caster angle dictates the returnability to center. If it's too little, you get no return (and it wanders). Too much and it becomes harder to steer. The factory range is perfectly sufficient, with the ideal setting around 3-4°.
You'd never want more or less camber because it's lifted... Again, there's absolutely no reason why those tires should not stand vertical to maybe +0.5° positive camber (with the truck unloaded).
The toe setting should always have those tires damn near parallel to each other (1/8" toe-in at the most, provided your steering geometry is good).
None of this changes just because the suspension is simply lifted. If for some reason it won't align properly to factory specs, then something is either wrong with with the way it's set up, or with the tech doing the job (or possibly both, too).


Something that should ALWAYS be remembered, any Twin-Beam suspension should be measured for alignment when the FULL WEIGHT of the vehicle is on the suspension, and the suspension is fully settled, with no tension or bind between the two front tires that could otherwise affect the suspension's height (when you first let it down off a jack for example, the suspension will remain "jacked up" somewhat due to this bind. Bad toe can create this bind as well when it is driven. You'll know that the toe is off if it jacks up when you go in one direction (forward or reverse), and it squats when you change directions).

The only absolute way to assure there is no bind is to have the tires fully resting on movable plates (such as on an alignment machine), although you can get pretty close to this ideal by rolling the truck back & forth a few times 10-20 feet or so (you will not be able to settle it just by "bouncing" it however).

Hopefully that helps.

 

[hutch08]

Thanks for clearing all the haze junkie... thats some great valuable info you just posted there, seeing that my suspension is set up at the correct "ride height" the techs shouldnt have any issue getting that sucker in spec.. i'm assuming the suspension wasnt completly settled when the last alignment was done, but i'll stick around to make sure this time.. once again thanks alot for the help, its greatly appreciated, i'll post back on monday with the results.. haha

 

[hutch08]

turns out that i was toed out about a full inch... might explain the crazy tire wear and wandering down the road.. haha , guess i'll have to put a few miles on it and see how the tires wear.. seems that it should be ok , still crossing my fingers though..

 

[4x4junkie]

Ouch! That'll rip the tread off real quick. I would say the last alignment guy owes you a pair of tires (or at least some mileage compensation on them). Good luck getting anything out of him though

 

[hutch08]

Yeah the asphalt tore into those swampers pretty good, the worst thing is thst the front tires were the ones with the most tread left.. haha.. oh well, the alignment shop was another City Tire so they did it for free and rotated my tires at no cost, better than nothing but sure wont compensate for all the rubber i lost.. but i highly doubt i'll see a penny for their f*ck up..