Achieving extreme rear flex?

[t0x1k]

I'm working on my issues with front flex. I need to buy new drop brackets first, stuck with a plate that has put some marks into my diff case.
I'm thinking of very flexy coils or coil retainers like on jeeps to allow coil drop. There's room for some good flex without much if any bind, the coils and shocks are whats killing me right now. I think Nitro skyjackers were the wrong way to go and make the ride rough and limit my travel by making it stiff as hell.
I can jack the front tire, either side and lift the truck with little to no coil compression.
It was a explorer lift kit so the coils are stiffer by default.

 

[legoms013]

The stock style doughnut bushings only have so much down travel before they bind. With my 8" coils, I run out of down travel soley b/c of those bushings. I have 11" at the wheels. at full droop, my suspension hangs and binds b/c of the bushing, and the coil, and shock are doing absolutely nothing to support or hinder that fact.

Might want to consider some James Duff heim arms, or custom long arms with heims if you need more travel.

However, I can attest that 11" of travel up front, coupled with the softer PPI of Skyjacker TTB springs lends itself very well to suspension travel. I have NO problem drooping out a tire. Stuffing one is a littler harder, but it happens none the less. Plus a very good, on road drive.

If you need more, or desire a floatier ride then the Jeep coils or EB coils might be the way to go.

What are you going for? A dedicated rock crawler or just a capable offroad truck?

I suggest Skyjacker brand coils, and chevy's out back if you are going for the latter. Those two together are a pretty good match with great results. And since you can't make a whole lot of noise with your mods, these are bolt on

 

[gwaii]

Ok, I follow you on that... But we were specifically discussing devices that disconnect the spring from the frame to give additional droop and you come in here and post something with inboarded springs that has nothing of the sort (at least you've not mentioned anything about it having that and nothing can be seen in those pics).

first of all,the inboarded springs were on the front,and this thread is about rear flex.while those coils were removed the next week from when that pic was taken and replaced with a transverse leaf as in the rear,the point of the pic was to show that the tire on the droop side can still carry weight,something you don't see too often.while those pics don't show a huge amount of detail,this thread wasn't about putting up a whole bunch of pics of my truck.i have a whole thread for that.

Sasquatch was simply stating that a rig with, say, 20" of rear flex that comes from springs that work for that full 20" is going to be a whole lot better than a rig that the spring works for only 12" of travel, the other 8 coming from a "disconnecting" shackle, and I fully agree with him.

this is true...but what is also true is that if you want to 'achieve extreme rear flex' you won't get it from a system that holds the axle off the ground when getting crossed up.there seems to be a lot of confusion and disinformation on this site from people that think they know what might work,but have never built anything that actually achieves 'extreme flex'...on either end of the truck.

You also have to remember the OP appears to be still running the stock-type suspension up front. To have such extreme articulation in the rear and (guessing) only a max of maybe 35° total up front (no mention of what mods he's done up there... it's likely as little as 10°!), to have such an imbalance of front & rear flex is another recipe for disaster (I know this well from my Ranger that had supple rear springs and rock-hard front ones). Drop the stiff front tire down a ledge, up comes the rear & over she wants to go.
Maybe the OP needs to clarify what exactly his goals are here

a clarification of his goals is not really needed...he posted a thread titled 'achieving extreme rear flex' in the 'extreme suspensions' forum.

seems pretty clear to me.

now i agree completely with you that having one end of the truck flex more freely than the other is a bad idea.i went through all that when i was changing out the suspension on mine every week trying to get a good,balanced,safe to drive truck.but i'm not going to make assumptions about what the op has or knows about all that-i'm simply going to address his question.if he wants to know about an extreme flexing balanced system for his truck,i'd be happy to pitch in with my hard earned knowledge on the subject. .

I don't know if this is directed specifically at me, but I DO know how it works. I HAVE seen where someone's floppy shackles unloaded on a hillclimb and made the whole rear of their rig start jacking itself up & down uncontrollably.

you've just demonstrated you know nothing about how my suspension system works.it has no more in common with a truck running floppy shackles than it does with baked lasagna.
might be time to do some studyin'

I've also seen setups with fully 90° of axle articulation relative to each other (quite common in the RC crawler world)

i'm talking about real trucks here,not toys.

and while this works great in rocks if you have a super-low CoG (and of course on ramps too), it doesn't work as well elsewhere (or if your CoG is higher, as is typical with a full-bodied vehicle).

consideration of cog is important,but what's even more important is it's relationship with insantaneous roll center.this is what's going to determine roll carachteristics of any suspension,from monster trucks to indy cars.my cog is fairly high,but i've placed my roll center just below it so there will be some transfer to the outside tire on cornering,but not so low that there is a tendency to roll in off cambered situations(which my truck handles just fine)
while this may not translate into the ultimate in cornering force,this was never an important design criteria.stability,on the other hand,was.

the truck is in the midst of a refit at the moment,but on completion i will post video of it in action.all sorts of action.

you may want to post video of a similarly capable truck of your construction to compare to it.

 

[NMB2]

I usually save this for Pirate, but your last post really rubbed me wrong. So here goes.

first of all,the inboarded springs were on the front,and this thread is about rear flex.while those coils were removed the next week from when that pic was taken and replaced with a transverse leaf as in the rear,the point of the pic was to show that the tire on the droop side can still carry weight,something you don't see too often.while those pics don't show a huge amount of detail,this thread wasn't about putting up a whole bunch of pics of my truck.i have a whole thread for that.

Then don't post pictures of your front suspension, or your truck. Pretty simple

this is true...but what is also true is that if you want to 'achieve extreme rear flex' you won't get it from a system that holds the axle off the ground when getting crossed up.there seems to be a lot of confusion and disinformation on this site from people that think they know what might work,but have never built anything that actually achieves 'extreme flex'...on either end of the truck.

"extreme flex" is a relative term, and while I agree alot of "non extreme" suspension get put up in here, it is not up to you to decide the level.

a clarification of his goals is not really needed...he posted a thread titled 'achieving extreme rear flex' in the 'extreme suspensions' forum.

seems pretty clear to me.

seems pretty clear to me that you are obsessed with your monstrosity of a truck

now i agree completely with you that having one end of the truck flex more freely than the other is a bad idea.i went through all that when i was changing out the suspension on mine every week trying to get a good,balanced,safe to drive truck.but i'm not going to make assumptions about what the op has or knows about all that-i'm simply going to address his question.if he wants to know about an extreme flexing balanced system for his truck,i'd be happy to pitch in with my hard earned knowledge on the subject. .

you are welcome to pitch in your opinion, but you do more than just "pitch it in" you are coming off as forcing it, and its not a subject where your method is anywhere near accepted as the "best"

you've just demonstrated you know nothing about how my suspension system works.it has no more in common with a truck running floppy shackles than it does with baked lasagna.
might be time to do some studyin'

I think baked lasagna probably takes more skill to make, than your suspension. You had to be drunk when you built it... right?

i'm talking about real trucks here,not toys.

So are we, and you start posting pictures of your novelty item


consideration of cog is important,but what's even more important is it's relationship with insantaneous roll center.this is what's going to determine roll carachteristics of any suspension,from monster trucks to indy cars.my cog is fairly high,but i've placed my roll center just below it so there will be some transfer to the outside tire on cornering,but not so low that there is a tendency to roll in off cambered situations(which my truck handles just fine)
while this may not translate into the ultimate in cornering force,this was never an important design criteria.stability,on the other hand,was.

the truck is in the midst of a refit at the moment,but on completion i will post video of it in action.all sorts of action.

you may want to post video of a similarly capable truck of your construction to compare to it.

While your truck is fun to look at, it is NOT a real wheeling rig, and it definitely is not capable of running the types of terrain 4x4Junkie, myself, and alot of other people run on a regular basis, and you have to understand that is Junkies standpoint. While he is a bit nicer about it than I am... I'll just come out and say it.

You talk about posting videos and comparisons, and you talk shit about these "inferior suspensions".... tell you what. ANY TIME you are welcome to come run with me, and I promise you that you will understand where we are coming from. It will not end the way you want it to.

 

[gwaii]

While your truck is fun to look at, it is NOT a real wheeling rig, and it definitely is not capable of running the types of terrain 4x4Junkie, myself, and alot of other people run on a regular basis, and you have to understand that is Junkies standpoint. While he is a bit nicer about it than I am... I'll just come out and say it.

You talk about posting videos and comparisons, and you talk shit about these "inferior suspensions".... tell you what. ANY TIME you are welcome to come run with me, and I promise you that you will understand where we are coming from. It will not end the way you want it to.

interesting.

i had no idea you'd even been around to see what type of terrain i may or may not have wheeled on,or how well i may have done on it.

you've got some pretty broad assumptions going on,all things considered.

but that's ok...i've got enough confidence in my own abillities and experiences that i've no need to get into an insult hurling match.

 

[NMB2]

interesting.

i had no idea you'd even been around to see what type of terrain i may or may not have wheeled on,or how well i may have done on it.

you've got some pretty broad assumptions going on,all things considered.

but that's ok...i've got enough confidence in my own abillities and experiences that i've no need to get into an insult hurling match.

I can look at your truck and tell what type of terrain it doesn't wheel. Plain and simple. Thats MY experience.

I'm not making any assumptions. I am making statements based off of your posts and specifically your attitude towards the subject in this post. If you don't wanna play, then don't start it up. Like I said, I usually just lurk and keep quiet, but I couldn't this time.

I respect you as a builder. While I have no use for what you build, I can respect the passion and effort that goes into it. Maybe I was a bit harsh saying you were drunk building it, and I apologize for that.

I also like looking at your builds and reading your posts when I have time, however you seem a little bit out of character in this thread, and borderline abrasive. While I am not a person that is against abrasiveness, if you are going to make posts like you did, be prepared for people like me to fire back.

 

[NMB2]

I would also like to add to the OP. any sort of folding shackle/hinged setup is a bad idea. the best thing you can do in your application is fix the shackle angle. move your shackle hanger forward and run a set of lift springs. They don't have to be chevy 64's.

the chevies work well because they are cheap.

If you buy a spring like an aftermarket toyota spring, you can keep your wheelbase, move your shackle hanger foward, gain lift, and have a stronger, softer spring pack than the chevies. The shackle angle is the biggest killer on these trucks, it is way too verticle.

 

[gwaii]

I can look at your truck and tell what type of terrain it doesn't wheel. Plain and simple. Thats MY experience.

I'm not making any assumptions. I am making statements based off of your posts and specifically your attitude towards the subject in this post. If you don't wanna play, then don't start it up. Like I said, I usually just lurk and keep quiet, but I couldn't this time.

I respect you as a builder. While I have no use for what you build, I can respect the passion and effort that goes into it. Maybe I was a bit harsh saying you were drunk building it, and I apologize for that.

I also like looking at your builds and reading your posts when I have time, however you seem a little bit out of character in this thread, and borderline abrasive. While I am not a person that is against abrasiveness, if you are going to make posts like you did, be prepared for people like me to fire back.

ok...i can deal with that...though i still say you can't judge what i wheel with my truck,unless you were there.

but the real reason i came back here was to respond to the assertion that i called any particular type of suspension inferior.
this was not the case...i was simply saying that there were certain types not suited to a particular use.

just as a fire truck won't make the best indy racer,that does not make it any less useful for it's intended purpose.
a semi-eliptical spring system is a very good and useful type of suspension.i use it on several vehicles.but it has it's limitations...one of those is extreme flex.

i'm a diehard supporter of ttb as well,but i had to ditch it when i was looking for more articulation.i'll still run it on trucks to which it's suited,but there's a point when you just have to say ok...this isn't the best way to go.

so no,i at no point said any suspension system was inferior...simply misplaced.

 

[4x4junkie]

first of all,the inboarded springs were on the front,and this thread is about rear flex.while those coils were removed the next week from when that pic was taken and replaced with a transverse leaf as in the rear,the point of the pic was to show that the tire on the droop side can still carry weight,something you don't see too often.while those pics don't show a huge amount of detail,this thread wasn't about putting up a whole bunch of pics of my truck.i have a whole thread for that.


this is true...but what is also true is that if you want to 'achieve extreme rear flex' you won't get it from a system that holds the axle off the ground when getting crossed up.there seems to be a lot of confusion and disinformation on this site from people that think they know what might work,but have never built anything that actually achieves 'extreme flex'...on either end of the truck.

a clarification of his goals is not really needed...he posted a thread titled 'achieving extreme rear flex' in the 'extreme suspensions' forum.

seems pretty clear to me.

now i agree completely with you that having one end of the truck flex more freely than the other is a bad idea.i went through all that when i was changing out the suspension on mine every week trying to get a good,balanced,safe to drive truck.but i'm not going to make assumptions about what the op has or knows about all that-i'm simply going to address his question.if he wants to know about an extreme flexing balanced system for his truck,i'd be happy to pitch in with my hard earned knowledge on the subject. .
you've just demonstrated you know nothing about how my suspension system works.it has no more in common with a truck running floppy shackles than it does with baked lasagna.
might be time to do some studyin'


i'm talking about real trucks here,not toys.


consideration of cog is important,but what's even more important is it's relationship with insantaneous roll center.this is what's going to determine roll carachteristics of any suspension,from monster trucks to indy cars.my cog is fairly high,but i've placed my roll center just below it so there will be some transfer to the outside tire on cornering,but not so low that there is a tendency to roll in off cambered situations(which my truck handles just fine)
while this may not translate into the ultimate in cornering force,this was never an important design criteria.stability,on the other hand,was.

the truck is in the midst of a refit at the moment,but on completion i will post video of it in action.all sorts of action.

you may want to post video of a similarly capable truck of your construction to compare to it.

Naw, that's ok. Until you're past the thread's title and can see what the actual discussion here was (and not making the assumptions you're making), I don't really have much inclination to discuss it anymore. Good luck with your "refit" (2nd time? -pic name)

I think I am gonna go have some baked lasagna though, thanks for the great idea.

 

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

Flex is so over rated just throttle through it.

HEROS GAS IT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H9y_aIft4U&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzWq4DR55vc&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqDXcuPzV0&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TE-lvKyaZ8&feature=player_embedded

 

[cdawall]

I can look at your truck and tell what type of terrain it doesn't wheel. Plain and simple. Thats MY experience.

I'm not making any assumptions. I am making statements based off of your posts and specifically your attitude towards the subject in this post. If you don't wanna play, then don't start it up. Like I said, I usually just lurk and keep quiet, but I couldn't this time.

I respect you as a builder. While I have no use for what you build, I can respect the passion and effort that goes into it. Maybe I was a bit harsh saying you were drunk building it, and I apologize for that.

I also like looking at your builds and reading your posts when I have time, however you seem a little bit out of character in this thread, and borderline abrasive. While I am not a person that is against abrasiveness, if you are going to make posts like you did, be prepared for people like me to fire back.

Just saying its pretty obvious from the way it was built and the location of the pics that truck was built to play on a ramp not offroad. can you say street queen sort of thing...

 

[compaqeo]

I love that people assume who wheels and who doesn't. Only us from BC know what kind of wheeling there is here and only those from your state/provinces know what kind of wheeling there is there....We dont climb rocks we climb mountain washouts with boulders and soupy no traction forested trails weaving between trees while crushing body panels. Also i doubt Gwaii built that to be a street queen haha or a ramp show off.

 

[cdawall]

I love that people assume who wheels and who doesn't. Only us from BC know what kind of wheeling there is here and only those from your state/provinces know what kind of wheeling there is there....We dont climb rocks we climb mountain washouts with boulders and soupy no traction forested trails weaving between trees while crushing body panels. Also i doubt Gwaii built that to be a street queen haha or a ramp show off.

i don't doubt it want to know why? the damn things frame is painted blue, it has pictures in a parking lot with a bunch of other mall crawlers, there isn't a spec of dirt on said blue frame, there are also no scratches on any of the smurf blue work. as for wheeling in BC big deal its not anywhere special its the same rocks and trees they have in hundreds of other places.

 

[compaqeo]

i don't doubt it want to know why? the damn things frame is painted blue, it has pictures in a parking lot with a bunch of other mall crawlers, there isn't a spec of dirt on said blue frame, there are also no scratches on any of the smurf blue work. as for wheeling in BC big deal its not anywhere special its the same rocks and trees they have in hundreds of other places.

he did a whole restoration thats why its blue...... theres dirt covered pics in this: http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91231

probably cant make it up to 30kmh anyway with all the like 10 trans and transfer cases in it.

never said our wheelin was better, did i?

 

[Bray D]

probably cant make it up to 30kmh anyway with all the like 10 trans and transfer cases in it.

I haven't read his build so I don't know what trans' he used, but if they've all got overdrive, he should be able to make it up to 500 kmh. lol


As for who wheels and who doesn't, I'll just say "pics or it didn't happen."