Ac boost

[MrFixIt]

I've been thinking for a few days, would hooking up the AC to the intake affect anything? As in a litteral cold air intake, or would the AC have enough power to do so, just wanting to know if this is even worth looking into?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Not really, I doubt it could cool air fast enough to keep up with the engine's demand.

 

[RonD]

No, it would be like trying to cool the inside of the cab with windows open, AC couldn't over come outside temp at all.

And CAI(cold air intakes) don't make that much of a difference in any case, its "free" extra power so car makers added it all fuel injected engines because its cheap to do so.
Like scavenging exhausts, cheap and free power but not all that much

 

[pjtoledo]

I've been thinking for a few days, would hooking up the AC to the intake affect anything? As in a litteral cold air intake, or would the AC have enough power to do so, just wanting to know if this is even worth looking into?

my fading memory banks seem to recall the Ford GT used AC to cool the intercooler. it has been 15+ years so some research would be needed for confirmation.

 

[Denisefwd93]

my fading memory banks seem to recall the Ford GT used AC to cool the intercooler. it has been 15+ years so some research would be needed for confirmation.

I remember something like that too!

In order to "cool" intake air it would take something like what is used to freeze ice cream "flash freeze" It's done with LARGE ton refrigeration (a ton in mechanical refrigeration is 12,000 btuh. Essentially, the intake are would need to go through a cooler. kind of like the inter cooler used for turbo systems. .. the HP gain? minuscule

 

[Will]

If this worked it would be a perpetual motion machine.

Your car AC uses about 10hp--don't compare it to your home window unit as a car is a lot of glass and mechanical waste heat so it is many more times more powerful than a home AC. If you could cool the intake air enough to make 10 extra hp, you would have solved the perpetual motion machine problem.

Free energy.

Not possible.

 

[Denisefwd93]

What drives this idea that intake air needs to be cool/ cold ? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to understand that warm air and warm fuel vaporize better, give better combustion and better fuel mileage.
We see hot water lines going to throttle body on many engines, so there must be some truth to "warm is better"

 

[adsm08]

What drives this idea that intake air needs to be cool/ cold ? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to understand that warm air and warm fuel vaporize better, give better combustion and better fuel mileage.
We see hot water lines going to throttle body on many engines, so there must be some truth to "warm is better"

Warm is better for emissions. Cold air has a higher oxygen density and so it is better for performance.

 

[Denisefwd93]

Warm is better for emissions. Cold air has a higher oxygen density and so it is better for performance.

Yes, which kind of the divides racing strip and track gas-guzzling vehicles, from daily driving higher gas mileage pass emissions vehicles.

 

[Dirtman]

We use to make redneck NOS systems when I was a teenager. We would coil up a bunch of fuel line in a big coffee can and pack it with dry ice to super cool the fuel. It was actually rather effective for 2 bucks worth of garbage. Some guys would make modified air filter tops that held dry ice as well but like stated previously there's simply too much air moving for it to become cooled down fast enough.

 

[chewy012]

Cold air and hot fuel make the best explosions. I think they shoot 130F (55C for you weirdos) for intake temperature when designing the engine as its a good line between air density and fuel vaporization.

I don't think people realize how much the air has warmed up and expanded by the time it it gets to intake valve

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[Denisefwd93]

Those into performance and gas guzzling cry because they're using too much gas. Those that are not using a lot of gas and don't have performance are crying because they can't be the fastest vehicle on the road.

This argument has been going on since the 70s when they killed the muscle cars with new regulations and insurance changes.

Seems like the best answer to this is to tow your race vehicle with your emissions passing economical gas mileage vehicle! But I oh but uh oh we just lost gas mileage because we're towing a vehicle!

 

[RonD]

Gasoline won't burn in an engine, only gasoline vapor can be ignited by a spark

And as "us" older guys know, gasoline vapor ANYWHERE in the fuel lines is a BAD thing, lol, i.e. vapor lock
Same applies to current fuel injection but higher pressure in fuel lines negates vapor lock.
But liquid gasoline must come out the injector tips, or fuel system couldn't work.

Engine's compression is what vaporizes the gasoline, you need 30% vapor to start cold gasoline engine.
Which is why gasoline engines need to be "choked" when cold, cold cylinders and cold gasoline = less vapor, so more gasoline is added to get minimum 30% needed for spark to ignite it

Warmer gasoline vaporizes better, but it all vaporizes when spark is able to ignite some of it.
Gasoline's WEIGHT doesn't vary much by temperature, at least not as much as air's WEIGHT does

The 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio used for gasoline engines is a WEIGHT RATIO <<< this is the BIG THING to remember
14.7 POUNDS of air to 1 POUND of gasoline
14.7 grams of air to 1 gram of gasoline

So not a volume ratio, which is why "pre-vaporizers" or 200mph carbs were hooey, if engine pulls in 14.7 POUNDS of AIR then it will required 1 POUND of GASOLINE to run.
This is like Gravity, you may not like it but when you trip and fall you have to acknowledge it is a fact

Mixing the air and gasoline better makes engines more efficient but doesn't change the 14.7:1 ratio
Carbs were less efficient than injectors, dual intake valves and swirl make for a better mix, but still have the 14.7:1 ratio needed.

Air weighs more at sea level than 5,000ft, lighter air means less oxygen, so less gasoline can be burned and thats less power per RPM
"hot air rises", thats because it is lighter than the cooler air around it, that's how hot air balloons fly, warmer/lighter air inside the balloon is "floating" on the cooler air outside it.
Cooler air is denser/heavier so has more oxygen, that means you can(have to) add more gasoline to it to meet the 14.7:1 ratio, so get more power per RPM.

Denver has cooler air but also less oxygen because of altitude, so light air and less power for engines.
Turbo charged vehicles sell well there, because NA feel under powered, because they are.
Turbo or super chargers increase the WEIGHT of the air that can be used in a cylinder, force more air/oxygen into a cylinder so more gasoline can/needs to be added to get the 14.7:1 ratio, so more power

Like for real estate's "location, location, location"
For Gasoline engines its Air Weight, Air Weight, Air Weight

 

[pjtoledo]

What drives this idea that intake air needs to be cool/ cold ? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to understand that warm air and warm fuel vaporize better, give better combustion and better fuel mileage.
We see hot water lines going to throttle body on many engines, so there must be some truth to "warm is better"

as air passes thru a throttle body there are sections where the air is accelerated. that causes a localized drop in temperature, and in certain conditions the moisture in the air freezes. us 'ol guys remember it as "carburetor icing"
it would happen a few degrees above freezing, was affected by the relative humidity. (sound familiar?)

fuel injection systems don't require the venturi, but the throttle plate causes the air to accelerate around it. the icing is rare now, the heat makes it non-existent.



there are guys that remove the hot coolant from the throttle body area and swear they pick up a pony or 2.

 

[RonD]

Yes, +1 ^^^

Heated throttle body and PCV Valves are for colder climates, where in the winter "warmer is better"