89 BII timing off or?

[jballen]

I have an 1989 BII with a 2.9/5 speed. This truck hasn't been started in over a year. When I bought it the guy said it threw the timing chain. I opened it up and the chain looked like new. Checked the timing marks and they matched up.

When I went to start it I put the light on it to see if the timing marks lined up & they were and they were 120 degrees off. Not wanting to pull the distributor I moved the plug wires counter clockwise 2 terminals on the distributor to correct the problem. Now the timing mark at 10 degrees btdc lines up with the timing mark on the side of the engine. It pops & white smoke comes out the intake but no start.

Questions;

1) Is it not starting because of old gas? Or ???

2) 0r do the plug wires have to be in the original position to run? I noticed on the other 1989 BII 2.9 I have that the #1 plug wire is next to a plug in the top of the distributor cap. That's why I ask this question.

 

[sjr53]

Maybe you needed to move the wires clockwise 1 position. The timing mark will line up at the end of the exhaust stroke as well as at the end of the compression stroke. Now try moving the wires 3 positions either way & see what happens.

 

[piotrsko]

the old fuel will likely piss off the fuel system, melt some of the rubber parts, but it will run, kinda.

I would pull a spark plug to see TDC, and adjust my timing from there.

 

[jballen]

Looks like I find TDC and go from there.

Thanks...

 

[jballen]

Removed the old gas & put in new.
Replaced the TFI on the distributor as the old one tested bad.
Moved the wires on the distributor so that when it's at TDC the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug.
Pulled the valve cover on the bank over the #1 cylinder to see if the valves were closed at TDC. They were.

Here's what happens when I try to start it;
Spray either into intake.
turn key and wait for fuel pump to prime.
turn key to start.
It cranks over and I can hear the cylinders fire, but it does not start. While watching the intake when the wife cranks it I can see white smoke puff every once in a while from the end of the intake. (Valves off slightly???)

Any ideas on why she won't run???

 

[piotrsko]

Removed the old gas & put in new.
Replaced the TFI on the distributor as the old one tested bad.
Moved the wires on the distributor so that when it's at TDC the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug.
Pulled the valve cover on the bank over the #1 cylinder to see if the valves were closed at TDC. They were.

Here's what happens when I try to start it;
Spray either into intake.
turn key and wait for fuel pump to prime.
turn key to start.
It cranks over and I can hear the cylinders fire, but it does not start. While watching the intake when the wife cranks it I can see white smoke puff every once in a while from the end of the intake. (Valves off slightly???)

Any ideas on why she won't run???

New gas will take a while to purge from the system(like 5 miles) but it should still run

the white puff may indicate a warped or not fully closed valve, a mini compression check would help there, or if you are fortunate, a leak down tester would be the best bet.

BTW white smoke from the end of the intake?? unless you mean throttle end,, then you may have other problems.. Do you have the wires verified for firing order? i believe 142536 for v6 clockwise on distributor, 123 on pass side f to r, 456 on drivers side f to r # 1 at about 7 o'clock position on dist.
I am betting you have a timing issue still

 

[kimcrwbr1]

are you using the right pointer on the engine to line the crank up to it is the pointer toward the top not the round spot for a crank position sensor

 

[jballen]

I'll borrow a compression tester from the borther in law and check for a leak.

That's the firing order I'm using; 142536 for v6 clockwise on distributor, 123 on pass side f to r, 456 on drivers side f to r but when I had the engine at TDC, # 1 is at about 1 o'clock position on dist from the front. I'm guessing that the guy before me pulled it and put it in 180 degrees off. I do have the plug wires moved to compensate for that. Will that work or is that the problem??

The puff of white smoke was from the end of the throttle end..

And I am using the pointer not the round spot for a crank position sensor.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

as long as number one is firing at 10 btdc with the spout disconnected and the firing order is correct the computer dont know the difference it sounds like it is more like 90 degrees off. any way maybe it skipped a tooth or two on the timing chain if your getting fuel and spark it should at least run rough till you dial in the timing. can you hold the timing light while it is cranking and see your mark

 

[kimcrwbr1]

The way i set my distributor put it on tdc #1 cylinder pull the distributor noting how far it turns from down till you can spin it free figure where you want #1 to sit on the cap then turn you rotor past the same distance it turned when you pulled it out push it down till it hits the oil pump shaft then crank the motor while pushing lightly on the distributor till it fits on the pump shaft and pushes all the way down then put it back on tdc and check how you did it usually takes me a couple times to get it right

 

[jballen]

I think I see the problem, I didn't remove the spout when I cranked it and turned the distributor so that it read 10 degrees BTDC to get the timing close. I'll do that and see where the the mark is and adjust it...

 

[jballen]

Last night I hooked up the timing light, removed the spout & had the wife turn it over so I could set the timing close enough to start. After setting it at 10 degrees BTDC, I had nothing but popping & some white smoke back out the intake where the air filter hose connects to it.

Any more ideas how what could be wrong???

 

[piotrsko]

since I'm the king of putting wires on wrong (like c-clockwise), i know 180 out of time will do the burping up the intake. BTDT that is why I have an 18yr old son for ignition duties. If you're SURE the timing lobe is in the correct place.....you can force them on and break the internal pin thingey, BTDT2. Finally, are you sure the lobe is on the advance portion of the hall effect window and not the lagging portion of the pip window? you can check this by putting the lobe close to a tower and advancing by hand until you get a spark then see if the lobe is kinda centered on the tower.

then it ought to work, no matter where the lobe says # 1 is. I used to turn the V-dub distributor so that #1 was in back to mess with the local mechanic.

10 degrees off +/- will just make it impossible to run smooth. move the timing too far, and it will cause the starter to "catch" if too far advanced or puff white smoke if too far retarded.

did you get to see if you have valve problems?

 

[kimcrwbr1]

If your sure you are on 10 btdc on the number one cylinder and you have fuel it could be your timing chain. did you try pouring some fuel down the throttle body or spray some starting flud in while your cranking

 

[kimcrwbr1]

what you can do is take the #1 plug out and stick your finger on the hole till you feel compression turning the crank with a socket then stick a long screwdriver in and slowly turn it until the piston is all the way up just be careful you dont bind the screwdriver keep pulling it back till it starts to go down a little put the distributor where you want it for adjustment somewhere center so connector is easy to unplug. then see where the rotor is according to the # 1 on the cap you want to make the rotor end up in that position somewhere around 11 oclock I believe then you lift the distributor up the rotor will turn as you lift it out slowly note the distance it turns then try and make it end up on the # 1 position on the cap. It probably wont spin all the way back because the oil pump needs to line up so crank the motor slowly until the distributor drops all the way down then keep turning until you get to tdc again on # 1 and see if the rotor ends up where you want it. dont tighten it all the way just enough to turn the dist put it all together then try starting it with the spout connected and turn the dist while cranking. And just thinking when you have it timed at 10 degrees did you rotate the wires 180 on the cap and try again