88 2.9 starting issues

[mypaperpast]

i have an 88 2.9 ranger that does not seem to want to start...

here is the problem...
for the past few weeks the starter was "sticking" during startup..then one day it made a loud grind and stopped and wouldn't start...just a loud wizzzzzzzzz....looked under truck and starter had literally fallen off the trany...got that back on and the truck has been starting fine...other than the intermittent sticking...last night i used my 88 to jump start my 92 ranger to get it into the shop to start pulling that motor...went out this morning to for work and the 88 will not start...just a "thunk" "thunk" "thunk" when i engage the key...wouldn't jump from solenoid either..same effect....

so i replaced the starter solenoid which is what i had to do that last time this happened..still would not start...hooked the truck up to my brother in laws truck and i jump started it and it stuck again...after the sticking cut out i got it to start ones without a stick...unhooked and let it run for a bit.......went out turned key off...tried to start again and the same "thunk"

i've been needing a new battery so i went and got one...
now the truck has no issue jumping it from the starter solenoid but if i try to start it with the key...all i get is a single "thunk" when key is engaged...get out and jump it from solenoid...starts right up and runs nicely....

any help here would be greatly appreciated as this is my daily driver

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I would try some new cables. Both battery cables and the one to the starter from the solenoid. Cables can look ok but be trashed inside, had it happen more than once with those kinds of cables.

Now days I make my own cables. I went to using bulk welding cable and crimping my own ends. Welding cable has more strands, so it's a higher flex and higher electrical transfer. You can often buy it by the foot at welding shops and places like tractor supply. It's not exactly cheap that way, but it's good. I use a dab of dielectric grease in the ends before crimping. If you don't have a proper crimping tool, I've made do with a good pair of fencing pliers or even a hammer. Make sure it's secure, then put heat shrink over it to seal the connection.


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[mypaperpast]

i didn't think about getting new cables...but i'm not going to argue the fact that i do believe this truck needs them...lol...

and you think this might cause the truck to not start with the key but have no problem starting from jumping at solenoid

 

[RonD]

The part on the inner fender with battery cable attached is the starter RELAY, it is often called a solenoid but isn't.

A Solenoid is often used ON the starter motor, it pushes the starter gear out to mesh with Ring Gear.

Solenoid causes movement
Relay causes electrical connection

On the starter relay there are 2 larger posts, they are for the battery positive cable and the starter motor positive cable
(the battery post on this relay is often used as the Power Distribution, so alternator wires, and fuse wires are connected to this post as well)
(starter post will ONLY have starter cable)

Then there will be 1 or 2 smaller posts
"S" post is used to activate the starter relay, close it to send battery power to starter motor
"I" post was used in older vehicles to send full battery voltage to the ignition coil during starting, newer relays won't have this post, and it doesn't need to be connected if you do have it, assuming you have an electronic ignition.

To test starter relay, MAKE SURE you are in Park or Neutral, E-Brake set
Remove "S" wire from starter relay, usually a Red/blue stripe wire on Fords
Use a jumper wire from battery positive and touch it to the "S" post, starter should activate, if key is on engine will start, if key is off engine will just crank until you remove wire from "S" post.

If that happens then starter relay is good and starter relay has a good Ground to fender, if it doesn't happen battery cables or relay is bad.

Now test "S" wire.
"S" wire comes from the ignition switch under the steering column in the cab.
When you turn the key a long rod pushes/pulls the ignition switch slider into its various positions, acc, off, run, start

Hook up the "S" wire to the starter relay again
Turn the key to START, this sends 12volts to the starter relay and it should close, starter motor should activate
If you just hear a noise or nothing happens then you are not getting full 12volts on the "S" wire, so relay is not closing and staying close.
Could be ignition switch is worn out, contacts are corroded or loose
Could be battery power wire TO the ignition switch is low, but this would usually effect gauges and dash warning lights.

Or could be the "S" wire itself, internal corrosion or ends are corroded preventing full voltage thru the wire


Battery--------fuse-------------------------ignition switch---------("S" wire)------------starter relay

 

[mypaperpast]

thank you for the detailed replies...a co worker today told me that it's likely the ignition switch as well...the truck does jump start from s post to pos battery...i will be replacing battery cables and ignition switch tonight and let you guys know what happens

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I've also seen where the ignition switch needed adjusted slightly. Not very common, but since it can move a little for adjustment on the mounts, it can be adjusted.

As far as the starter and solenoid goes, an 88 with a 2.9 would have an old style starter. No solenoid on the starter, but the guts of the starter can wear, I had one that was half broken inside, sometimes it would buzz without kicking out to grab the flywheel. I took to parking on a grade and just bump start it until I got around to fixing that. Your starter solenoid is on the fender.

I would suspect that the cables may be worn, but the extra voltage from a jump is enough to overcome it. Bear in mind, your battery puts out around 12.4 volts. A running truck with a good alternator is putting around 14 volts across the battery terminals.


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[mypaperpast]

again...i have really appreciated the help...last night i took another shot at jumping from battery to S post which i realized after my last reply that i had not done yet....thought you were talking about jumping the two POS posts on solenoid...so i did the jump to S post and got the same exact sound that trying to start with key made...so i figured my key cylinder and switch where just fine...checked for 12v on the S wire while engaging key and sure enough...got 12v across wire......

so the best thing i've done all day was second guess an O'Reilys part and went and got another solenoid...this time the 20 dollar BWD model...hooked it all up and BOOM...truck fired off better than ever...also took my old battery to work and sure enough it wouldn't hold a charge...so that was sure long overdue...

thanks again for all the advice...bookmarking for future reference...now to start on the motor transplant in the 92...you'll be hearing from me again

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Good deal! Yea, sometimes you can get a bad part out of the box. Saw a brand new starter get tested right out of the box once. Test machine said it passed, but the thing sounded like it was full of rocks when it spun up


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[wildbill23c]

If the starter is sticking why are we worried about cables, solenoids, etc. Replace the starter otherwise you can replace every component on the truck and the starter is still going to stick. Also, if the starter actually fell out of the mount on the bell housing you'll most likely forever be trying to keep that starter properly aligned...my 84 Bronco 2 would have starter issues almost constantly because the starter would never stay aligned, it would grind or not even engage.

In your case a new starter is in order.