5.0 plans may change...

[Black P-38]

With the price of gas going insanely high here on the Oregon Coast, ( I run premium in my Lightning and paid $4.48 yesterday ), I'm thinking of ditching the 302 idea for a smaller, lighter V8.

I've been looking into a Buick/Olds/ Pontiac/ Rover aluminum 215 V8 and wondered if anyone has tried swapping one into a RBV. Also if anyone has one for sale or trade please let me know.

I'm a Ford man all the way and never liked the idea of anything but a Ford motor in a Ford but this gas insanity has me thinking differently now.

My new goal is to build a 2600 lb RCSB with 185-200 hp that, with proper gearing, should be capable of 30 mpg Hwy on regular gas. Another benefit is weight distribution. With the 215 at just 318 lbs, a lighter hood, battery relocate, rear mounted 10 gallon fuel cel and suspension upgrades it should be easy to build a hard cornering fun little truck.

Opinions and suggestions are appreciated!!!

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Black P-38]

Minor update...

Been sourcing info and parts on Buick 215's. There are alot of them still floating around and parts are reasonable. The overall width is just 20.5",measured to outside of valve covers, not 26" as I've seen in the dimensions listed in weight/size swap lists.

Looks like it'll set nicely with a rear sump Rover pan and leave plenty of clearance to a stock hood. I have a block, heads, valve covers, timing cover, oil pan and water pump on their way to me so the 2.3 is coming out for fitting/mockup of the 215.

I can get a bellhousing to mate a GM T-5 to the little V-8 and will be running a .63 5th gear and 3.08 rear with 25.6 dia tires.

According to gearing/speed calculators should see about 1500 RPM @ 59 MPH... With only 215 cubic inches to feed at that RPM I'm hoping for good highway mileage.

As far as power goes, in "stock" configuration, the shop that will be building my 215 turnkey motor, (they specialize in these amazing little aluminum wonders), states 225 hp and 250 ft lbs Tq on Regular octane. This is for their "Spec" engine. That more than rivals stock #'s for the 5.0 HO at a weight savings of about 150 lbs. I hope to be pulling the 2.3 by next weekend so I can get started. Having a "mock-up" motor will allow complete preparation so when the new motor arrives it'll be a bolt in deal.

Another nice feature of the 215 is the oil filter is on the front passenger side of the motor, (no steering conflict), AND it has a front dizzy.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress,
Mike

 

[baddad457]

Interesting swap. BUT......................................... One thing I've learned in my 30 years and over 3 million miles of driving trucks.....................smaller motors don't equate to better mileage. Higher torque does. A big motor loafing along at a lower rpm will many times consume less fuel than a smaller, higher strung motor turning more rpms. Don't be surprised to find in the end that the 215 gets no better mileage than a 302 does. You might have done better going with a smaller bore SBF like the old 260 V8. Been an easier swap too.

 

[red85]

I like the idea of that little v8. There are a ton of guys in the UK that take those engines and put them in MG's. If I could find one, I'd do the same swap.

 

[Black P-38]

As in the case of my Mom's '70 Olds Delta '88 455 cid. That car got a consistent 20 MPG highway with a 3 speed auto, no overdrive and had enough punch to knock out a Bull Moose.

I am in NO way disrespecting the 302 here, I've loved every one I owned. In my opinion the SBF's are the greatest motors ever conceived, for a variety of applications.

I agree that the SBF can be tuned/geared as a mileage maker and I've owned my share of 'em. I still say the 302, even as light and compact as it is, has a huge weight disadvantage when compared to the 215. Aluminum heads would help but are expensive and an aluminum 302 block is 4 to 5 grand, bare. An aluminum 302 still outweighs the complete 215 by a good 80 lbs. Part of the function of efficiency depends on overall weight. Of course a big reason for my choice is weight off the front end...

The 215 is 100 lbs lighter than the 2.3 Lima it will replace and makes more than twice the power so it, in comparison, should be loafing along at highway speeds.

I agree completely with your reference to big inch low RPM/high torque vs small inch/high RPM. I'm shooting for light weight, small inches AND plenty of low RPM torque.
I can't imagine that a stock 215 will guzzle gas at 1500 RPM... I'm hoping it will sip.

Did I mention that the Rover 3.5 is the same basic motor?, (GM sold them the 215 in 1965), and there are complete multiport EFI units available to retrofit to the 215?
That means the options for tuning for either efficiency or power are well beyond a small 4 barrel carb. I plan to swap to EFI later on, for ease of initial swap and cost I'll be going carbed. BTW, Edelbrock makes a Performer intake for the 215 and there are many off the shelf cam grinds to choose from depending on usage. After more than 45 years the 215 is alive and well.

Did anyone see the July issue of Hot Rod? Check out page 107... that V-8 chainsaw is making over 300 hp NA from 215 inches of aluminum Buick. It's limited to 8,000 RPM but has been spun to 9,000...

I'm commited to doing the swap and will report back as I make progress including pics.
This may be the strangest swap I've ever done but I hope it will be the most rewarding.

Mike

 

[Black P-38]

I like the idea of that little v8. There are a ton of guys in the UK that take those engines and put them in MG's. If I could find one, I'd do the same swap.

You can find one easily and for alot less $$ than you would dare to think...
Here's a link to get you started... Call them up and talk to Mark, he's an expert on the 215 and has over 200 of them, he's also a really nice guy.

Tell him Mike Caldwell from Oregon sent you...

http://www.aluminumv8.com/index.htm

Mike

 

[baddad457]

When I said bigger motors having an advantage, I should have said that a longer stroke, smaller bore, but bigger engine would be the winner in mpg. Ford did this with the mod motors. What's the bore/stroke of the 215? And I too, have experienced a 455 Olds fuel economy, we had a 70 Delta 88 with a 455 (2 bbl at that!) that regularly pulled down 20 mpg on the highway with no overdrive. The key to it is the long stroke/small bore and efficient heads and mild cams, that and keeping your right foot under control. My 06 Stang GT has gotten up to 27 mpg on the highway, IF you keep your foot out of it.

 

[Black P-38]

Wow, small world! My mom's was a 2 bbl also... I always though it would have been even better with a small cfm 4 bbl. The 215 is a 3.5" bore with a 2.8" stroke. At 225 HP out of 215 cubes in stock trim I'd say it's pretty efficient at making power for it's small internal volume.

Yes, the key is controlling the right foot... the wicked, nasty right foot, also known as "The FUN foot!!!" Hehehe!!!

I'm getting excited about the project and can't wait to get started. I'm picking up a "spare" block, crank, rods, timing cover and valve covers on Saturday and should have the heads, oil pan and water pump by Monday or so. I'll only be lacking an intake for a complete mockup motor and I won't have any issues with that as I'm replacing the extremely heavy stock hood with a 20 lb 'glass 2" cowl hood.

The block is standard bore and the crank is std/std so with the "spare' heads I'll be on my way to a second or backup motor. The "crate" 215 I'm getting will be complete from carb to pan with a 2 hour break-in/tuning run by the builder, Mark @ D&D Fabrication.
By the time the 215 arrives the Ranger should be ready for a "drop in and go" weekend.

Mike

 

[bobbywalter]

heavy stock hood?



i dont know if it will see 26 mpg regularly on 87 octane, but it sure as hell will be one neat ride imo when your done.

 

[Black P-38]

Yes, the hood on my '91... HEAVY!!! I'll report back on MPG's after the initial "How strong does it run" phase...

Mike

 

[Black P-38]

Update...

Returned from a parts gathering trip today.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so I'm hoping the following pics will illustrate what I've been trying to say...

 

[Black P-38]

How light is it???

 

[Black P-38]

REALLY LIGHT!!!

And so begins my Buick adventure!!!
Mike

 

[Black P-38]

Here's a few more pics to help show how compact these little wonders are...

And one that may remind you guys of a SBF piece...

But it's a Rover EFI intake that fits the Buick 215...

Pretty cool huh?

Mike

 

[Black P-38]

Here's a pic of Glen Towery's EFI V-8 setup in his MGB

and a link to how he does the conversion including pics on "British V8"

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-Hot-Wire-EFI.htm

Pretty cool stuff...
Mike